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Really folks, get over it. I'm sick and tired of hearing it. "Games Workshop sucks. It costs too much." Or the ever present "Man in real life it would never happen like that"

If you want a hobby that doesn't cost anything go catch butterflies. I hear cloud watching is a cost effective way to spend your time. Come on!!! Or you can do this...which is happening all the time. You can play GW but only buy your stuff on the net and save like 15%. Then take your new freshly painted army to the game store you play at and show it off. And while your there make sure you don't buy any snacks or drinks either. Go to your car between rounds and sip your hot soda.Then ask me in a year or so why your game store closed. I"m sick of it!!!!! Maybe you should play magic, that's cheap. OH wait...in a matter of years the cards you spent money on will no longer be usable...you'll need to buy more. Good Lord man!!!!!

See it all the time at the stores we go to and play at. Nobody buys crap there and wonders why the stock isn't up to their par...idiots!!!

I know money is tight right now, trust me I know. But people have been complaining about this since I started gaming. Just tired of it.

Now...real life?

Well buddy if you see a 'Nid of any type walking around let me know so I can head to the mountains!!!!! I know there is a line of reality that needs to be followed here, but come on, give it a rest.

+1 I think.

I think this thread should be QFT

To be frank I'm pretty sick of hearing about hearing it

Could I use butterflies to play 40k if i converted them?

This feels like a PM gone wrong

Kirasu wrote:Could I use butterflies to play 40k if i converted them?

This feels like a PM gone wrong

As long as they're 70% GW product

OP still has a valid point.

Personally, all I see online are a bunch of mouth breathers intent on making their opinion fact, rather than just personal opinion.

My personal experience very much suggests otherwise, but I guess some people just need the ego-boost of making themselves seem right

Now don't worry, I see the inherent hypocricy of my post, and accept it. Just a shame many others are incapable of doing likewise. And now? Time to play Warhammer Online!

Butterfly catching requires all those fancy nets and traps, not to mention the pins, board, and all the other stuff.

Pretty much every hobby has some expenses, and it's kind of natural to desire the 'best' stuff for the hobby as wella s to want it cheaply.

I also agree with the OP, although I don't think that this is neccesarily limited to wargamers.

How many people go to church on a Sunday? Probably not that many, but how many would be upset and "outraged" if all the churches and cathederals, abbeys and chapels were pulled down due to lack of use? I would wager a hell of a lot more than those who actualy make use of them and contribute to there upkeep.

I think most people here will admit that the wargaming community would be poorer without GW and there stores, even more so should the majority of FLGS go out of business too. I think that if you use a shop to game the least you can do is support it by buying something there once in a while. Most of my miniatures come from either trades on Dakka or buying from Ebay, but everytime I drop by a GW store I tend to pick up something even if it's just some paint.

Yes GW is expensive and probably overpriced but it's there freedom to charge what they like and ours to say no thanks if we aren't happy with that.

Toy sodiers are a privilege not a right, a luxury not a neccesity.

They're overpriced, and shouldn't be that expensive. GW plans for short-term profit instead of long-term, and avidly show that as long as their space marines keep selling like hot-cakes, they could care less what people actually think about them.

Their donkey-caves, plain and simple.

swordbrotherjim wrote:Really folks, get over it. I'm sick and tired of hearing it. "Games Workshop sucks. It costs too much." Or the ever present "Man in real life it would never happen like that"
If you want a hobby that doesn't cost anything go catch butterflies. I hear cloud watching is a cost effective way to spend your time. Come on!!! Or you can do this...which is happening all the time. You can play GW but only buy your stuff on the net and save like 15%. Then take your new freshly painted army to the game store you play at and show it off. And while your there make sure you don't buy any snacks or drinks either. Go to your car between rounds and sip your hot soda.Then ask me in a year or so why your game store closed. I"m sick of it!!!!! Maybe you should play magic, that's cheap. OH wait...in a matter of years the cards you spent money on will no longer be usable...you'll need to buy more. Good Lord man!!!!!
See it all the time at the stores we go to and play at. Nobody buys crap there and wonders why the stock isn't up to their par...idiots!!!
I know money is tight right now, trust me I know. But people have been complaining about this since I started gaming. Just tired of it.

The question around the actual 'worth' of a miniature is relative. Different people will place different value on a box of plastic soldiers, for me personally, it's about a like for like with other companies (Warlord and Mantic) who are showing just what a mark up is placed on GWs miniatures. I've chilled my anger against GWs prices and instead watch with happiness as these other companies rise up to produce a competitive market where GW will be force to shape up, it's a ponderous monopoly holder atm, new blood will sharpen their game and hobbyists will stop being treated like junkies and more like CUSTOMERS.

The investment, over years (in my own case 22 years) is not insubstantial. Do you seriously dwell in some magical land of plenty where people don't get peevish over price rises? GWs price rises are very sharp and have been for a long time. There have also been certain things (the mythical tin crisis causing a temporary metal mini price increase that was never relented, followed by the financial reports saying the plastics would be elevated to match the metal prices, or the infamous 'price elasticity' comments about what the customer will tolerate) that suggest GW are not in the habit of holding it's own consumer in a very high regard. That has been condensed over time and compounded by the 'C&D' attitude of the company to many of it's fans.

The right of a consumer to debate the value of the product is inherent.

The indy stores have my sympathy and also my cash. I think many of them would cite GW's strangling and stupid trading rules regarding just what it will and won't sell them as a fairly large bugbear in their trading lives, let the indy shops have the full range and compete effectively with the online wholesellers and more to the point, EFFECTIVELY compete with the GW a couple of streets or a town away that DOES have the 'insert random item here' that GW refuses to sell to the indy. We need more indy stores, in fact we need indy stores instead of GW ones, selling GW stuff alongside Infinity, Warmachine, Flames of War, Malifaux, Helldorado and a heap of amazing miniatures from all those games. Open the hobbyists minds to other games and mini lines.

If you don't like me expressing my concern that GW continue along a bizarre pricing strategy (multi part plastics priced according to 'in game points/rarity'??) then put me on ignore, you have that power, just as I and anyone else has the power to voice our ire over the vastness of the web. Complaining about people complaining about high prices is about the stupidest thing ever posted here, it's as bloody natural as drawing breath.

Karon and MGS have the best posts in this thread, particularly this line:

Complaining about people complaining about high prices is about the stupidest thing ever posted here, it's as bloody natural as drawing breath.

The online wholesellers actually are restricted to the same range as FLGSes. They're required to, at least in the US, also have a storefront and office, with a clear address and windows showing off the product.

The guy who owned the old FLGS around here is looking into doing the online thing for a bit, till he can find an actual good location to start up a real store again--and that's what he's been told by, not only Games Workshop, but also Privateer Press and Wizard. So it's not 'just' Games Workshop that requires it.

As for the "C&D attitude"...you're forgetting to mention that these sites that get C&Ds also received a prior letter informing them of an incoming C&D unless they comply.
C&Ds cost nothing to send, nor do they cost anything to deal with.

It's a nicer way of saying "Knock it off, or you're getting a lawsuit coming your way" than just randomly serving civil or criminal suits.

The indy stores have my sympathy and also my cash. I think many of them would cite GW's strangling and stupid trading rules regarding just what it will and won't sell them as a fairly large bugbear in their trading lives, let the indy shops have the full range and compete effectively with the online wholesellers and more to the point, EFFECTIVELY compete with the GW a couple of streets or a town away that DOES have the 'insert random item here' that GW refuses to sell to the indy. We need more indy stores, in fact we need indy stores instead of GW ones, selling GW stuff alongside Infinity, Warmachine, Flames of War, Malifaux, Helldorado and a heap of amazing miniatures from all those games. Open the hobbyists minds to other games and mini lines.

I don't think its GW that is strangling indy shops (they charge regular retail in their stores and on their website ffs), it is internet vendors that have little to no overhead that are killing indy shops, as they can charge less for the product and still make money. They may be required to have a brick and mortar shop to get the prices that they sell online, but that doesn't mean internet sales can't be the primary focus of their business. These internet folks sell stuff cheaper and the customer never has to leave his house. Only the most dedicated customer would drive to their local shop and hope that they have what they want and its not too much more expensive then these internet sites. I see it in my business all the time (not wargaming related, but retail is retail regardless of what you sell) and internet vendors are my main competitors.

I also don't buy the whole "GW is mean to indy shops" complaint. I've seen, on this very site, store owners defend GWs dealings with their businesses. GW doesn't and can't stop a store owner from stocking any of the brands you list, its up to the individual store owner to decide what is most profitable for him.

swordbrotherjim wrote: But people have been complaining about this since I started gaming.

And they will continue to do so. And people will continue to complain about the people complaining, and others will continue to complain about the people complaining about the people complaining until the whole mess implodes as the angst reaches critical mass.


You're better off just taking a deep breath, accepting that some people will always complain, and moving on.


These threads never end well. Since I have no reason to suspect that this one will do any better than the norm, I'm going to go ahead and lock it now in the interests of flame prevention.