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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/02/21 15:32:34
Subject: Codex cults, basic musings
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[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche
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Codex cults is an idea I toss around from time to time. It would include chaos cults (it uses a lot of the Lost and damned rules), genestealers (Tyranid tim's lists from the old citadel journal also are used) and Imperial guerilla armies (think of the snipers in Stalingrad or the Viet Cong). Basically all of them would use the same list but with the usual Allies rules (0-1 HQ, 0-1 elites, 0-2 troop that do not count towards the minimum, 0-1 fast attack, 0-1 heavy support). They could pick allies from CSMs, IG and Tyranids, and for gits and shiggles, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necrons or Orks (imagine they've been mislead). NO IMPERIAL MARINES of course. NONE. Alternately I might make the list with no elites but allow specific units from other armies to serve as elites, depending on type of cult. Most units would only have low tech weapons, flamers, grenade launchers, heavy bolters, auto cannons, demo charges. Few would even have access to plasma, power weapons, meltas etc. Anyway... the general idea is: HQ Demagog and Retinue Demagog is not much in a fight but creates a fearless bubble, and has the once a game holy relic extra attack thing. The Retinue are storm troopers with full access to plasma, melta, etc as well as power weapons and fists. Transport - Armored Limo (armor 11/11/11, optional heavy stubber, transports 5 models) Alpha Level Psyker Or are they omega level psykers? i get my made up heirachies confused. Anyway, even sucker in a fight than the Demagog but with a 4+ invulnerable, flight, and a selection of Akira-like powers for tank crushing and suchwot. ELITES No real ideas... maybe Beta Level psykers? Lesser demegogs? Troops with good equipment? As I said this might be occupied by the 'flavor' units that turn a generic cult into a genestealer or whatever cult. TROOPS Mobs 20-50 models WS2, BS2, no save, armed with 2 hand weapons, 4 points. Upgrade to laspistols, shotguns or lasguns for 1 point per model (not all have to be the same). 1 in 10 gets a heavy bolter, heavy stubber, evicerator or flamer. "Upgrade" to harmless civilians. may deploy anywhere outside opp deployment zone. May not attack, may not take other upgrades, fall back from casualties. Losses count as victory points FOR YOU, martyrdom inspires others. Serve to clog up firing lines, distract opponent, etc. Mutants/servators/aliens/whatever 10-20 models WS2, BS2, T4, S3, about 7 points a model Upgrade to laspistol/shotgun/lasgun for 1 point Upgrade to S4 Upgrade to 4+ save Upgrade to fleet of foot Upgrade to rending claws Upgrade to venom Warriors, 1 squad per mutant or mob unit. IG stats, 10 to 20, pistol/cc, shotgun or las gun. 1 in 10 gets a grenade launcher/flamer/heavy stubber, sniper rifle 1 in 10 also gets heavy bolter/auto cannon/missile launcher, heavy flamer Upgrade to infiltrate Transports available TRANSPORTS Rhino, chimera (some sort of rule to show they're falling apart) Truck (armor 10/9/9, open topped, transports up to 20 models) FAST ATTACK Animal Riders Rough riders, no lances Bikers Bikes, you know then you love them Transport Rhino, chimera (some sort of rule to show they're falling apart) Truck (armor 10/9/9, open topped, transports up to 20 models) can take any unit Buggies 10/10/10 open topped, take one weapons, probably twin linked. Maybe upgrade to skimmers? HEAVY SUPPORT Fire teams 1-5 2 man teams. Get a heavy bolter, missile launcher or auto cannon. Or 2 sniper rifles. Infiltrate. +1 to cover save. Not a scoring unit. Terror Teams 5-10 warriors. Before the battle pick a peice of terrain outside you're opponent's deployment zone, they start in reserve and deploy from that terrain peice. Up to 3 can get demo charge, melta gun, plasma gun, sniper rifle, evicerator, heavy flamer Captured tank Leman, basilisk, predator, some sort of bad maintance rule. Traps Write down a bit of terrain outside your opponant's deployment zone. When they enter the trap goes off on 4+. Anti tank mine (S8, AP1, always hits rear armor) Frag mine (S3, AP-, 3d6 hits) Plasma charge (S7, AP2, 1d6 hits)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/02/23 01:06:10
Subject: RE:Codex cults, basic musings
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Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun
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It's a cool concept; and I think that you can strip out a lot of the special rules you've made and still keep the flavour. All you need are the basic troops, and then based on certain selections, allow restricted things. Example: HQ: Demagogue (Junior officer stats). Allows cultists to be convinced and allows inducted cultists to be selected. Troops: 0?2 Inducted cultist cell (guardsmen stats, lasguns/autoguns) These are here if you want a smallish, comparatively elite force; but you only get special weapons/rules/equipment if you fill out the other choices. Plus, if you want a huge mob of civilians/dregs, you've got the basic troops type below: Cultist cell (unarmed guard conscript): 2pts Special rule: Swept along. A great deal of cultists are pressured into joining, are recidivists, cowards or otherwise unreliable. They may not shoot or attack in close combat, but will defend themselves if attacked. They must take pinning rolls if the unit takes any casualties. Convinced+1pt: The cultist has been empassioned by the demagogue, and ignores the Swept along rule. All convinced cultists may have laspistol/autopistol ? xpts If your army includes more than two troops choices, cultists may be armed with lasguns/autoguns for xpts, improvised armour (Sv6+) for xpts... etc. Then, you play around: So if you buy the 'brood' choice for your army, you could go back to your cultist/inducted cultist cells with a load of new choices; extra arms give an additional attack; genestealer claws give them a ccw; thorny skin gives them 5+sv...; brood telepathy 'bumps' their leadership etc... and the demagogue can be upgraded to Magus, which gives him synapse, makes him fearless and allows other options: psychic scream may be purchased, he can buy a force weapon, he can get a bodyguard... etc. The further you go down this route, the more options ? so if you buy a certain number of brood brother upgrades, you can buy 0?2 first generation hybrid cells, which have all the brood brother options, and also have a few options which can't be bought otherwise; like LD10, or scuttling. Then, if you have two units of hybrids, you can buy a genestealer brood. If you have a genestealer brood and a demagogue, and your force is more than 1000pts, you can buy a patriarch/broodlord.
Example 2: If you give your demagogue the mark of nurgle, you can give your cultists 'feel no pain' or a 6+ invulnerable... and opens up a route to an unholy relic or something, which eventually allows you to buy plaguebearers as elites. Or you go for a crime gang theme, and upgrade your demagogue to 'criminal mastermind'... this could allow you to reroll the mission selected (the 'home turf' rule!) or something, and allow more Inducted cultist cells or 'buy off the enforcers'; which allows you to equip a single unit of cultists as enforcers; or 'good connections', which reduces the cost of weapons and equipment across the board or something. The point is that you can upgrade these 'blank' demagogue and cultist units to make whatever you like, and the choices you make progressively open up further options and close others down ? so you could go for a subtle chaos tinge to a criminal mob by giving your demagogue a chaos mark. You won't be able to buy the best chaos units, or the best criminal units, but you can have enforcers and first-generation hybrids in the same army. Of course, if you wanted, you could just have your civilian crowd by not upgrading any cultists to convinced. This way would be relatively simple ? similar to the doctrine system, but with more restrictions: something like the abhuman doctrines, where you had to buy a 'useless' doctrine to allow access to further ones.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/02/23 04:30:51
Subject: RE: Codex cults, basic musings
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Fresh-Faced New User
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You might want to Check out "Codex: Insurgency"
It has everything you want in it, allowing for "terrorist", "rebel" or other "cult" themed armies.. Chaos, Tau rebellions, Redemptionist, Genestealer Cult and just regular El Presidente armies..
you can d/l it from the Genestealer Cult site Tim Huckleberry from GW runs,
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/GenestealerCults
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/02/23 05:40:09
Subject: RE: Codex cults, basic musings
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[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche
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I'll check it out.
In the meantime here's an edited version:
ALLIES
Can ally with one of the following: IG, Tyranids, Tau, Orks, Eldar (either kind), Necrons, Inquisition. May ally with Chaos Space Marines but my only take Daemons, Defilers, Chaos Lord, Chaos Lieutenant, Chosen or Possessed. May add summoning icons to any warrior unit for 5 points.
0-1 HQ, 0-1 elites, 0-2 troop that do not count towards the minimum, 0-1 fast attack, 0-1 heavy support
HQ
Demagog and Retinue
Demagog is not much in a fight but creates a fearless bubble, and has the once a game holy relic extra attack thing.
The Retinue are storm troopers with full access to plasma, melta, etc as well as power weapons and fists.
Transport - Armored Limo (armor 11/11/11, optional heavy stubber, transports 5-10 models)
Alpha Level Psyker
Or are they omega level psykers? i get my made up heirachies confused. Anyway, even sucker in a fight than the Demagog but with a 4+ invulnerable, flight, and a selection of Akira-like powers for tank crushing and suchwot.
Traitor
Not much in a fight but gives you advantages like forcing opponent to reroll reserves or advantages in set up. Once he's killed you lose these advantages.
ELITES
Lessor psykers and demogogs.
Just lower versions of the units above.
Terror Teams
5-10 warriors. Before the battle pick a peice of terrain outside you're opponent's deployment zone, they start in reserve and deploy from that terrain peice. Up to 3 can get demo charge, melta gun, plasma gun, sniper rifle, evicerator, heavy flamer
Hoplites 5-10 guys Storm trooper stats, up to 2 special or heavy weapons including demo charge, las cannon, plasma, melta, power weapons, evicerators etc
TROOPS
Mobs 20-50 models
WS2, BS2, no save, armed with 2 hand weapons, 4 points. Upgrade to laspistols, shotguns or lasguns for 1 point per model (not all have to be the same). 1 in 10 gets a heavy bolter, heavy stubber, evicerator or flamer.
"Upgrade" to harmless civilians. may deploy anywhere outside opp deployment zone. May not attack, may not take other upgrades, fall back from casualties. Losses count as victory points FOR YOU, martyrdom inspires others. Serve to clog up firing lines, distract opponent, etc.
Mutants/servators/aliens/hybrids/whatever 10-20 models
WS2, BS2, T4, S3, about 7 points a model
Upgrade to laspistol/shotgun/lasgun for 1 point
Upgrade to S4
Upgrade to 4+ save
Upgrade to fleet of foot
Upgrade to rending claws
Upgrade to venom
Warriors, 1 squad per mutant or mob unit.
IG stats, 10 to 20, pistol/cc, shotgun or las gun.
1 in 10 gets a grenade launcher/flamer/heavy stubber, sniper rifle
1 in 10 also gets heavy bolter/auto cannon/missile launcher, heavy flamer
Upgrade to infiltrate
Transports available
TRANSPORTS
Rhino, chimera (some sort of rule to show they're falling apart)
Truck (armor 10/9/9, open topped, transports up to 20 models)
FAST ATTACK
Animal Riders
Rough riders, no lances
Bikers
Bikes, you know then you love them
Transport
Rhino, chimera (some sort of rule to show they're falling apart)
Truck (armor 10/9/9, open topped, transports up to 20 models)
can take any unit
Buggies
10/10/10 open topped, take one heavy weapon, probably twin linked. Maybe upgrade to skimmers?
HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire teams
1-5 2 man teams. Get a heavy bolter, missile launcher or auto cannon. Or 2 sniper rifles.
Infiltrate. +1 to cover save. Not a scoring unit.
Captured tank
Leman, basilisk, predator, some sort of bad maintance rule.
Traps
Write down a bit of terrain outside your opponant's deployment zone. When they enter the trap goes off on 4+.
Anti tank mine (S8, AP1, always hits rear armor)
Frag mine (S3, AP-, 3d6 hits)
Plasma charge (S7, AP2, 1d6 hits)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/02/23 06:03:37
Subject: RE: Codex cults, basic musings
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Fresh-Faced New User
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The more I read your ideas and what your trying to end up with, the more I think this Codex is EXACTLY what you want,
Its already got everything your trying to have it do (low tech weapons, mobs, cavalry, bikes, buggies, captured vehicles) and add more stuff to it (Car and suicide bombers for example), and not that this isn't a great start..but its alot more streamlined and less confusing.
Don't get me wrong, I read V1.0 of Codex Insurgency and it was pretty convulted too, perhaps you should get in contact with the Codex: Insurgency guy? You got some neat ideas.
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