Need Help on constructiong a 30k Battletech List

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**Garuss Acine**

well as the title says, I have a 30k game coming up. I know very little about the landscape, I know I will be going up against Level II WOBies, so I am fearing those C3/C3 Slaves, so I am thinking I will want to take some ECMs to help counter these.

now for my own side of the fight, I have a lot of aged Omnis(3050s), and to be honest I would prefer to stick with clan mechs, but I will listen to reason on how to counter the wobies.

I am very tempted to bring some AP Guass Elementals(a full star of them at 4/5 comes in at 2050pts, I love the power armored infantry), I also have three points of Protos(2 Centaurs, 1 Roc).

what I have come up with so far:

Dire Wolf Prime 2712
Warhawk Prime 3194
Timber Wolf Prime 2737
King Fisher Prime 2401
Gargoyle A 2689
Total 13733

Linebacker Prime 2390
Hellbringer Prime 2711 (ECM)
Storm Crow Prime 2073
Storm Crow B 2281
Black Lanner H 1928 (ECM)
Total 11383

5x Points of AP Gauss Elementals 2050

this leaves me with 2834 points that I can use to bring up the skills from 4/5. also if you know any decent clan Mechs that has an ECM. I wouldn't mind bringing a Mixed force either, so what ever you think would put a monkey wrench in a WoBy list would be greatly appreciated.

**Mattlov**

Only a Level II of Blakists at 30K BV? Those are all going to be damn good Manei Domini Pilots in bad ass machines. Seriously. That is an average BV of 5K per unit. You don't need a Binary to beat him. You need about 7 decent medium to heavies with outstanding pilots.

Outnumbering an Inner Sphere force with Clanners is a rarity, but it means those IS forces are GOOD.

Also, Blakists use C3i, it is different than the standard C3 setup and much harder to counter effectively.

Almost none of the 3050 generation Omnis have ECM in ANY configuration. Do you have anything of a more recent vintage other than the ones you listed?

**Garuss Acine**

Sadly the game has dropped in points, someone was unable to make it to the table, so now I am stuck with a 10k List .

as for what I have :

1xTurkina
1x Burrock
1x Cauldron Born
1x Mad Dog
1x Line Backer
1x Hellhound
1x Stone Rhino
1x Kitfox
3x Stormcrows
2x Ice Ferrets
1x Executioner
2x Gargoyles
1x Direwolf
1x King Fisher
2x Naga
1x Jenner IIC
1x Nova
1x Black Lanner
1-3x Timber Wolves
1x Summoner
1x Hellbringer
1x Nova Cat
1x Arcas
1x Glass Spider
1x Viper(Dragonfly)

so at 10k I am thinking 3-4 mechs of high skill should be able to carry me through, though I really would love to take a Warhawk (the Prime is just plan mean, 4xERPPCS and a Targeting Computer, Yes Please). though at such a low level it may be out of the question, I also think Elementals will be also not a worth wild unit for such a small force, even with a threat range of 9(12 when on the move).

**Mattlov**

The Warhawk C is a better option, runs much cooler without ammo. It is an ultimate cheese platform, but it is a nasty beast.

I'll come up with something when I'm not about to leave for work. 10K doesn't give you a lot to work with for Clanners.

**Garuss Acine**

Mattlov wrote:The Warhawk C is a better option, runs much cooler without ammo. It is an ultimate cheese platform, but it is a nasty beast.

I'll come up with something when I'm not about to leave for work. 10K doesn't give you a lot to work with for Clanners.

You are a life saver Mattlov!

oh quick question on why the Hawk C is Cheese, I really don't see it. because as far as I know(at least that's what I have been told) Pulse Lasers and Targeting computers don't stack with each other. because if this was the case, the Black Python would be the king of cheese(Targetting computer, 2 Large, 2 Medium and 4 Small Pulse Lasers, topping it off are 2 Machine Guns).

**Mattlov**

Pulse and targeting do stack with each other, you get a -3 to hit with the combo. What they can't do is target a specfic location using the targeting computer rules. That was a major change in Total Warfare that decreased the power of that combo.

In the older days you would see highly skilled Clanners just gut 'Mechs at medium and even long range with targeted shots. It was sickening to watch and pretty boring to play.

The Black Python and the Vapor Eagle were cheese lords for some time, along with the Glass Spider 2.

And if you want 4 PPC loving, look up a design called the Hellstar...

**Garuss Acine**

Mattlov wrote:Pulse and targeting do stack with each other, you get a -3 to hit with the combo. What they can't do is target a specfic location using the targeting computer rules. That was a major change in Total Warfare that decreased the power of that combo.

In the older days you would see highly skilled Clanners just gut 'Mechs at medium and even long range with targeted shots. It was sickening to watch and pretty boring to play.

The Black Python and the Vapor Eagle were cheese lords for some time, along with the Glass Spider 2.

And if you want 4 PPC loving, look up a design called the Hellstar...

I may have to get one after seeing its payload...

**Mattlov**

Quick and pretty strong force, but only 3 units:

Black Lanner H - Gunnery 2/Piloting 4.
Nova Cat G - Gunnery 3/Piloting 4.
Warhawk A - Gunnery 3/Piloting 4.

Comes in at about 9825 BV. Hits damn hard at range with the Nova Cat and Warhawk, with an ECM on the Nova Cat and Black Lanner.

Don't be fooled by the AP Gauss on the Nova Cat. Blakists like their infantry, and it will tear them to bits. And if they don't have any, it is still throwing 3 LRM 20s and an ER Large at range, with little heat.

Improved Gunnery for the Lanner due to the heavy laser. Makes a hard hitting bitch of a flanking unit.

And the Warhawk is an odd config, but is capable against any foe. If the enemy has vehicles, the LB 10-X can blow their treads off. It has a strong range profile and since it is Clan, it only gets better if you get closer.

**Garuss Acine**

Mattlov wrote:Quick and pretty strong force, but only 3 units:

Black Lanner H - Gunnery 2/Piloting 4.
Nova Cat G - Gunnery 3/Piloting 4.
Warhawk A - Gunnery 3/Piloting 4.

Comes in at about 9825 BV. Hits damn hard at range with the Nova Cat and Warhawk, with an ECM on the Nova Cat and Black Lanner.

Don't be fooled by the AP Gauss on the Nova Cat. Blakists like their infantry, and it will tear them to bits. And if they don't have any, it is still throwing 3 LRM 20s and an ER Large at range, with little heat.

Improved Gunnery for the Lanner due to the heavy laser. Makes a hard hitting bitch of a flanking unit.

And the Warhawk is an odd config, but is capable against any foe. If the enemy has vehicles, the LB 10-X can blow their treads off. It has a strong range profile and since it is Clan, it only gets better if you get closer.

very much liking this, though I want to face palm as I had completely forgotten that I have a Mist Lynx, and of course with the wishy washyness of the guy running the game, I now have an extra 5k points to spend.

I am thinking of throwing a Mist Lynx F in with the Black Lanner( 3 Medium, 4 Small Hvy Laser, Trgting Com. and light tag), and at 2/4 it is 2204pts so that still leaves me the better of 5k to add another mech in. that is if the Mist Lynx is a decent enough mech, it can keep pace with the Black Lanner and should provide decent enough fire support(30 points of damage at 21 heat). now seeing as the Mist has a Tag, should I go ahead and try to take advantage of that?

**Mattlov**

The key with dealing with Blakists is generally keeping them away from you. C3i is nice and all, but if you stay at range it helps you more than it helps them.

Plus, you will probably be outnumbered at this point. You don't want anything to need to get really close to the enemy, he'll have a numbers advantage. Speed might help keep you alive for a little while, but a light 'Mech doesn't take much to cripple.

An extra 5K BV? So you have 15K available?

**Garuss Acine**

yup, my unit got bumped up to 15k.

**Mattlov**

Alright, let's get a full Star working here for 15K:

Black Lanner and Nova Cat as my previous list.

Warhawk C - 3/4
Ice Ferret H - 3/4
Hellhound 3 - 3/4

Comes to 14950 BV. The units with heavy lasers are very fast and decently armored. The Ice Ferret and Hellhound have ER Larges to fall back on if they need to get away for a turn or two. Only the Black Lanner has to stay close, and it does have the ECM.

And the Warhawk just finds a nice place to park and blow things away.

**Garuss Acine**

what about switching out the Warhawk C with a Dire Wolf C or H I think at 3/5 or 3/4 I'd should be about to fit either in, what do you think?

**Mattlov**

The Dire Wof C is really BV expensive. You might be able to upgrade the pilot, but not the gunner. And with heavy lasers you always want a better gunner.

The H you could do, but you trade shorter range and higher damage for significantly less accurate fire. More of your preference in that case. The Dire Wolf H and the Warhawk C have almost identical BV. You gain armor and hitting power at the cost of speed and accuracy. The accuracy is the huge thing to me. You go from having a -3 to-hit with pulse lasers and targeting computer to a no modifier (+1 for heavy laser, -1 for TC). On top of that, you are slower, which will take longer to get the shorter ranged heavy laser in range. And the final point, those heavy lasers generate a staggering amount of heat. Better hope those Blakists don't have plasma rifles or infernos.

The upside of the Dire Wolf H though is pretty massive. You can throw 4 headcappers downrange and even if you don't start taking faces, you are pounding huge holes in the target. But again, it is a three point TN swing between the heavies and the Warhawk's LPLs. I always prefer to hit the enemy as opposed to having deadly weaponry that never causes damage. The Warhawk can engage the fastest enemy nits and still hit them, the Dire Wolf really can't.

Just my thoughts, though.

**Garuss Acine**

Actually a 3/5 Dire Wolf C comes in at 4693, while a 3/4 Warhawk C comes in at 4497, so only a difference of 197pts between the two. while I agree, offensively the Warhawk is more sound, the Dire Wolf packs more armor, so baring lucky rolls, should be able to last a tad longer. as it is 15k(myself) +15k(guy running the game) vs 30k(Evil Blakeist!), so far as for numbers, he is going to have 19(3x 100 tonners,then 5 more in the heavy to light assault weights, (7) 40 and under and 3 tanks), he will also having them tagged into C3, to level the field the guy running the game has given us Clanners access to another star of BA, so basically its two Novas to his 19 WoBies.

**Mattlov**

What are you using to calculate pilots? A 3/4 Warhawk C should be 4137. A 3/5 Dire Wolf C is 4332.

**Garuss Acine**

BV2?

**Mattlov**

Then I think you have bad math, or your pilot multipliers are wrong.

A 3/4 pilot multiples the base BV by 1.38. So a Warhawk C with base BV of 2998 x 1.38 = 4137.24. Rounded down to 4137.

**Garuss Acine**

Mattlov wrote:Then I think you have bad math, or your pilot multipliers are wrong.

A 3/4 pilot multiples the base BV by 1.38. So a Warhawk C with base BV of 2998 x 1.38 = 4137.24. Rounded down to 4137.

well in the Tech Manual, it says that a 3/4 multiplies the base Base by 1.50? pg 314.

**Mattlov**

No, the only way to have a 1.5 multiplier is a Gunnery 4/Piloting 1 pilot.

Gunnery is the left side column, go down until you reach the Gunnery skill you want.

Then track to the right until you reach the piloting skill you want. That is the final multiplier of the BV.

So you go down the left column to reach the row with Gunnery 3, then over to the 4 Piloting column. That is the multiplier you use.

Make sense?

**Garuss Acine**

Mattlov wrote:No, the only way to have a 1.5 multiplier is a Gunnery 4/Piloting 1 pilot.

Gunnery is the left side column, go down until you reach the Gunnery skill you want.

Then track to the right until you reach the piloting skill you want. That is the final multiplier of the BV.

So you go down the left column to reach the row with Gunnery 3, then over to the 4 Piloting column. That is the multiplier you use.

Make sense?

well I agree with what your saying, but there isn't a 1.38 modifier on the chart in my book? at 3/4 its 1.5..maybe its a misprint, but thats what it shows for me...

**Mattlov**

This should be the most up to date version. And the one you have still seems to be wrong...

**Orlanth**

I hate that table because it encourages cheese-bucketry.

Piloting skill can come in handy but I never really pay much penalty for having a piloting 5 or worse, yet with a 2d6 system a gunnery of 2 or better can get really ugly, especially with a fire support mech. I would be tempted, if I could stomach metagaming to take 2/6 as standard. Even though it wouldn't really make any sense, 'only hotshot snipers with two left feet should apply' is not a way to handle army recruiting.

The way we played it: 4/5 for the average joes, a 4/4 per lance and a single 3/4 champion or leader. Clanners get 4/4 as standard and either one or two 3/3 'bloodnamed'.

**Mattlov**

Going by fluff you are more or less correct, except the average Clanner should be a 3/4, and they only get better.