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Anyone ever played/heard of it? I saw it at my FLGS yesterday, and it looks really interesting and wacky, not at all GrimdDark like most Post Apoc games.

_Tim?

It's based roughly on D&D 4E rules, except it's the 4E to 4E that 4E was to 3.5E. So in other words, if you consider 4E a beautiful, in-depth, and rich system that is well supported and has everything you could possibly want out of a tabletop role playing game, then Gamma World will be a board game to you. I speak of this as if it's a bad thing because I remember when Gamma World was a setting in the Alternity system, and as such, an actual roleplaying game. The difference came as some surprise to me.

Character creation is predominantly random, however, very fun. I think one time I ended up playing a radioactive plant monster. The races and powers aren't necessarily themed toward game balance, but instead toward campy post-apocalyptic weirdness. Think combination of Fallout with some Boy and his Dog. Equipment is non-existent, which is fun and annoying at the same time. There's two classes of melee weapons, two classes of ranged weapons, two classes of armor, and your choice of shield or not. You get real 'gear' in the form of alpha tech (I think is what it was called) which is old pre-fallout gear that typically works once and then burns out. They usually give amazing bonuses or act as a crazy powerful weapon for an encounter or so. You heal after each encounter. For the most part, you don't get any real lasting gear or money, though you do end up with mundane crap that can be fun. You roll for random 'treasure' after each encounter, which could be anything from 'flashlight, no batteries' to 'hair dryer'.

It's a fun game, but it kind of lacks substance.

The orgiional Gamma World was based on the Metamorphosis Alpha game from the 70s. The Alternity version was much later. There was a Gamma World version for 3.0 as well I believe.

I've heard the current version embraces the silliness the old versions didn't really focus on.

For a 'tunable' PA game I'd suggest looking at Darwin's World. It can do bleak and grimdark, or can do 'lighter' post-apocalyptic stuff, too. There's a lot of Fallout inspiration in the Darwin's World stuff that may help players find a footing, but something neat is that there's some intentional ambiguity (when/how did the apocalypse happen) and the add-on bits (robot PCs, etc.) can be used or ignored as desired.

Huh. Learn something new everyday. I didn't realize that it predated Alternity; I'll have to see if I can find a copy and check it out.

As someone who has played Gamma World since 2nd edition I can honestly say the current Gamma World 4th edition D&D campaign world is a pale shadow of its former existence. The 4th edition version of Gamma World is actually about the 7th incarnation of the Gamma World concept under that name. It has gone from a gritty and nasty post apocalyptic world to a campy and still post apocalyptic world with aliens added in for even more silliness.

From a rules stand point here is my opinion:
4th edition, which is stripped out and dumbed down version of D&D 3.5; D&D Essentials whch is a stripped out and dumbed down version of D&D 4th; Gamma World which is even more stripped out and dumbed down than Essentials.

The character geneation concept of rolling randomly to determine your 2 starting background origins to definte your abilities is actually a good one, but given the fact that there are really *no* options available within the origins, but 10th level every character with Origin A will have the same exact powers as every other character with Origin A. I find that really boring and dull.

Equipment is also wholly generic as well which while it makes sense to enable you to use *anything* as a weapon, for some players it just adds a layer of confusion. What is the difference between a light and heavy two handed weapon. Where does my simple baseball bat fit into those definitions? What is a sword? Can I just my weapon as both a single and double handed weapon? If it is a heavy one handed weapon is it them treated as a light or heavy two handed weapon when used two-handed, etc. Mind you this aspect is not a bad one for those players who can think outside the box and detail out their light armor suit which is made up of all kinds of bent and shaped road signs and their heavy two-handed parking meter club that they cart around with them. Generally though I got more "huh"s than "Cool I can do whatever I want"s from people about this.

The most irritating aspect of the game are the mutant power and archeotech cards that added a "collectible" feature to the game. Yeah, just what the game needed. NOT. It has multple issues:
1) It is collectible so you cannot just go out and buy a supplement with all the cards in it.
2) The GM can have decks for tech and mutant powers and the players can have decks with tech and mutant powers. Since they aren't always used in a session it is VERY hard to keep track of which cards belong to whom. Also with their own decks players can stack things in their favor in a big way if they buy enough cards.
3) While the tech cards aren't that bad of a concept, the mutant power cards are somewhat. Pretty much every mutant in the game exhibits and has completely random and unrelated powers. One encounter they can shoot beams out of their eyes, but then the next they can use some strange mental power instead. None of the powers has anything to do with the origins of the character in question either.
4) Did I mention it is collectible??

Combat is so insanely dangerous that it is hard for players to survive even one encounter at low levels, let alone multiples and this is in a game that centers around the combat encounter. I found that when I created encounters using solely minions or general type creatures it wasn't *as* bad, but as soon as an elite or solo type creature was added to the mix, they were just way too over powered compared to the PCs.

I foolishly bought all 3 boxed sets in the hope that they would improve things, figuring that they may have played it safe with the initial release, but that wasn't the case.

Overall Gamma World players more like a board game with some of the rules glossed over than anything else. If that is what you are looking for, then by all means enjoy it. On the other hand if you are looking for an interesting postapocalyptic setting and a decent RPG then don't bother.

The one aspect of the game that is good is that it is an interesting source for some cool new monsters with unusual damage types. That is about all I really like about it at this stage. Part or me, though, is really considering running an old 2nd edition Gamma World game just to fulfill the Gamma World GMing excitement that got generated by the new release of Gamma World and then was squashed when I actually saw the product.

Skriker

Skriker wrote:As someone who has played Gamma World since 2nd edition...

As soon as I read this first sentence I was able to predict accurately everything that came after.

even without that sentence, you'd still most likely have been correct

I have to agree with the OP - but then, you probably knew that already!

Just move along and let 4th edition DnD die.

It's really the only humane thing to do now.

Just move along and let 3/3.5 edition DnD die.

It's really the only humane thing to do now.

Ahtman wrote:Just move along and let 3/3.5 edition DnD die.

It's really the only humane thing to do now.

I just bought the ADnD Arms and Equipment guide from a yard sale. That was my favorite book of all of them back in the day. I used to loan it out from the library whenever I could when I was a little kid.

WarOne wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Just move along and let 3/3.5 edition DnD die.

It's really the only humane thing to do now.

I just bought the ADnD Arms and Equipment guide from a yard sale. That was my favorite book of all of them back in the day. I used to loan it out from the library whenever I could when I was a little kid.

That is a nice non sequitor.

Tjhe whoe D&D4/D&D3 thing was a non-sequitir.

I think the whole RPG industry is in a weird sort of transition. FFG is doing surprisingly well with their 40k RPGs, but they tried something new with that one WHFRP edition that didn't go over well.

I've heard that Pathfinder and 4th edition are generally considered 'neck and neck' as far as sales. PF wins some months, 4th Edition others. A recent comparison was that apparently PF focuses on a lot of 'setting' releases, while 4th edition is mainly 'rules' releases. 4th also has the 'spoiler' that a lot of sales are converted to DDI subscriptions. I'm currently sitting on a DDI subscription as none of the recent releases, few that there are, interest me.

I worry that D&D is turning into the same Cath-22 a lot of the major US comic books are stuck in: If they do a new take on a character (or new edition) they get hate-mail from people that want the older stuff back, but when they 'go retro' people complain that it's stale and they want new stuff. They can't win.

Anyway, back to Gamma World: I've never played it personally, but I get the feeling the initial versions could (no matter if this was intentional or not) be played as either semi-serious "Wasteland Gaming" with inspiration from Mad Max, etc. or as a weird, goofy, 70s sci-fi where talking plants are normal and anything goes.

Both of these are valid stances, if it's what you're into. My gaming group has suggested doing a short adventure of TMNT/After The Bomb to scratch a similar itch with Palladiums admittedly broken system, but never have quite gotten around to it. The newest edition of Gamma World, however, seems stuck on the 'silly' side and this doesn't work for a lot of gamers.

For a more serious (but with some fun elements) Post-Apocalyptic game, check out Darwin's World. It's strongly Fallout-inspired (which is not a bad thing) and not as random as the new Gamma World is said to be.

WarOne wrote:I just bought the ADnD Arms and Equipment guide from a yard sale. That was my favorite book of all of them back in the day. I used to loan it out from the library whenever I could when I was a little kid.

That whole DM support blue covered series was really pretty good like the Campaign Creation Guide and other books as well. I still consider them some of the best D&D resources out there. Some focused on the game specifics like the Arms and Equipment guide, but others dealt with the esoterics like the Campagin guidebook. All in all really good books...

Skriker


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Ahtman wrote:
As soon as I read this first sentence I was able to predict accurately everything that came after.

None of the Gamma World versions were perfect...heck 3rd edition tried to take away the dice and use some weird fancy tables to determine the outcome of everything and it was pure suckage.

The multiple random origins are really a cool concept. The open endedness of the equipment tables and definitions is great with the right group of people. The tech cards are nice because you can give the player the stats for the new toy they found instead of having to tell them every other time they use it because they keep neglecting to write it down. The take on a lot of the critters is also pretty nice as well.

Unfortunately the overall feel I get from the 3 boxed sets is of someone who came up with some cool ideas for converting D&D 4th to use it to play Gamma World, but then never really finished the conversion and just published what they had and left it at that. I was expecting a lot more from it and not because I had played Gamma World already through many of its previous 6 incarnations, but because I generally expect more from one of the largest game companies expanding on what used to be the most played role playing game ever created, hands down.

It just bothers me that years ago maybe 1 in 5 or 6 RPG books I bought gave me a "Meh" or "so-so" reaction, but now, especially in D&D, it seems that every release leaves me unimpressed. After so many years as a gamer in general and a D&D player specifically it just makes me sad. Mind you there are still some good games on the market some, like Call of Cthulhu, have seen a constant stream of decent books/supplements for many long years. Others, like the new Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, etc series of 40k games, also have some very consistent and interesting books coming out. It just feels that WotC is really just going through the motions anymore:
1) Make a new edition.
2) Publish a pile of rules, adventures and supplements for it.
3) After a while return to number 1 and start over.
There doesn't seem much heart or committment in it anymore...

Just my $0.02...

Skriker

Skriker wrote:It just bothers me that years ago maybe 1 in 5 or 6 RPG books I bought gave me a "Meh" or "so-so" reaction, but now, especially in D&D, it seems that every release leaves me unimpressed. After so many years as a gamer in general and a D&D player specifically it just makes me sad. Mind you there are still some good games on the market some, like Call of Cthulhu, have seen a constant stream of decent books/supplements for many long years. Others, like the new Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, etc series of 40k games, also have some very consistent and interesting books coming out. It just feels that WotC is really just going through the motions anymore:
1) Make a new edition.
2) Publish a pile of rules, adventures and supplements for it.
3) After a while return to number 1 and start over.
There doesn't seem much heart or committment in it anymore...

How is this different from most companies, albeit on a shorter scale?

I've heard that 'core books' generally sell best, followed by splatbooks, with adventures generally selling poorly. I'm wondering if the modern trend of 'adventure paths' or 'plot point campaigns' by various companies has raised the place of adventures a bit, as many companies seem to be doing them at least...

1) Make a new edition.
2) Publish a pile of rules, adventures and supplements for it.
3) After a while return to number 1 and start over.

Thank goodness we play Warhammer. Could you imagine if GW followed this model?

Balance wrote:How is this different from most companies, albeit on a shorter scale?

I've heard that 'core books' generally sell best, followed by splatbooks, with adventures generally selling poorly. I'm wondering if the modern trend of 'adventure paths' or 'plot point campaigns' by various companies has raised the place of adventures a bit, as many companies seem to be doing them at least...

It isn't necessarily different from a standard marketing standpoint, but the feel of the releases is different. Plenty of games still release supplements and rulebooks that clearly say that the author really wants to do something positive for the system by writing their book for it. I just don't feel that anymore when I read new WotC RPG releases. A lot of things are just missing that spark. Maybe they are tired of publishing D&D. Maybe it is time to finish up the latest edition and then just let it retire instead of making D&D 5.0 which has even less life in it.

Just mulling it around in my head because for years whenever a new (A)D&D supplement/rulebook came out I would cart it home and read it for hours, and spend days digesting the whole thing and it could a week or more before I was ready to move on to something else, because there was just so much to discover. Now with a new D&D book I feel like I read it completely in an hour, digest it by the 2nd hour and am ready to move on in 2.5 hours....

Skriker

Skriker wrote:Just mulling it around in my head because for years whenever a new (A)D&D supplement/rulebook came out I would cart it home and read it for hours, and spend days digesting the whole thing and it could a week or more before I was ready to move on to something else, because there was just so much to discover. Now with a new D&D book I feel like I read it completely in an hour, digest it by the 2nd hour and am ready to move on in 2.5 hours....

Do you also feel like music these days just doesn't have that same feel that it did when you were younger and there are fewer new bands that you like?
In general, do things seem like they were better 10, 15 or 20 years ago?

Sounds like you're just getting older.

Skriker wrote:It isn't necessarily different from a standard marketing standpoint, but the feel of the releases is different. Plenty of games still release supplements and rulebooks that clearly say that the author really wants to do something positive for the system by writing their book for it. I just don't feel that anymore when I read new WotC RPG releases. A lot of things are just missing that spark. Maybe they are tired of publishing D&D. Maybe it is time to finish up the latest edition and then just let it retire instead of making D&D 5.0 which has even less life in it.

Just mulling it around in my head because for years whenever a new (A)D&D supplement/rulebook came out I would cart it home and read it for hours, and spend days digesting the whole thing and it could a week or more before I was ready to move on to something else, because there was just so much to discover. Now with a new D&D book I feel like I read it completely in an hour, digest it by the 2nd hour and am ready to move on in 2.5 hours....

I think the good/bad is that the 4.0 books (and some of the latter 3.0/3.5 books as well) are written almost like a book detailing a computer language or API. This is great in play, as rules are very clear and understandable, but I don't think it's as 'engaging' as some of the older books.

Striking a balance between these two extremes is an art form. A lot of games have had issues where it's not clear where fluff/background ends and rules begin. The best game books would ideally be well organized, but have a lot of clearly-noted diversions and sidebars to keep things interesting, while also have a clear design that is at the same time very representative of the game's genre.

Very well put Balance. I think that says it a lot better than I was saying it. I still run Shadowrun using a customized 2.5 version of the rules and a lot of the older shadowrun books were that way. They had really interesting and cool story based details about the subject, but at the end had a clearly defined and detailed rules section to make everything clear within game context. I always liked that. Then you get the other extreme with GW where they write rules and then have a sidebar with a cool story that is also supposed to be a rule, but that isn't clear at all.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:Do you also feel like music these days just doesn't have that same feel that it did when you were younger and there are fewer new bands that you like?
In general, do things seem like they were better 10, 15 or 20 years ago?

Sounds like you're just getting older.

haha!! Very funny...given that my musical tastes are so varied I doubt I will ever have fewer bands to listen to in my lifetime. Just don't expect me to get Bieber fever...

And as I said many game companies still make rulebooks that are interesting to read and feel like they are more than just a rote, "Oh we need a book about the Underdark now" kind of release.

Couldn't say that life was better 10, 15 or 20 years ago...just different. Such is life, though...

Skriker

Ahtman wrote:

1) Make a new edition.
2) Publish a pile of rules, adventures and supplements for it.
3) After a while return to number 1 and start over.

Thank goodness we play Warhammer. Could you imagine if GW followed this model?

I know right, *glances over his shoulder* OMG! They have a death strike missile launcher model in store now! *drops his old IG codex and hurries over too drool over the new toy*


Anyways....

I've played quite a few games of Gamma World and it was funny when my A.I. swam randomly sprouted wings when a rolled a nat 1 on my omega overcharge.... good times.... good times....

I also think it's cool that you can pull monsters from 4e and from 4eGammaWorld and interchange them. The look on their faces when their entirely arcane party was ambushed by Pig-Men with repeating crossbows..... ^.^

But I think WotC went too far when they made Blackguard a playable class and Vampire a class. <.<

*rants about how Vampire is a damn template not a class*
/rant

Cambak wrote:But I think WotC went too far when they made Blackguard a playable class and Vampire a class. <.<

*rants about how Vampire is a damn template not a class*
/rant

Making it a class made it more accessible to players since players can't get templates in 4th ed. It also gives you a power progression for your character so you can start at first level and not overpower the entire party.

pretre wrote:

Cambak wrote:But I think WotC went too far when they made Blackguard a playable class and Vampire a class. <.<

*rants about how Vampire is a damn template not a class*
/rant

Making it a class made it more accessible to players since players can't get templates in 4th ed. It also gives you a power progression for your character so you can start at first level and not overpower the entire party.

Sure you can, you just take the vampire heritage feat. Give you the Blood drain encounter power at 1st level if you want too use up your 1st lvl feat too be a "vampire" <.<

Cambak wrote:Sure you can, you just take the vampire heritage feat. Give you the Blood drain encounter power at 1st level if you want too use up your 1st lvl feat too be a "vampire" <.<

Right, but this gives you more options...

You want to be a Vampire Fighter who mixes his powers with martial training. Take Vampiric Heritage.
You want to be a Vampire who skips over martial training to focus on his supernatural heritage, gradually learning more and more and gaining more power. Take the Vampire class.

For better or worse, the concept of Vampire as a progression (because of WoD and other Vamp RPGs) in RPG culture has been planted. Can't hurt to have more options.