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Hi, my names alex and i am very interested in starting lotr miniatures games but i dont have a clue where to start , first of all what is the difference between the two games and i definately know i want to start with the evil forces of middle earth but what are the pros and cons of each e.g. mordor isengard angmar ans misty mountains ( i dont like harad as i beleive they only have the stinky elephant as a selling point :L) and what minis should be my ideal first purchace, thank you

lots of face melty love , alex

Well, WotR is very big scale battles. Think WHFB.
Stratagy Battle Game is more skirmish.

The difference is that in WoTR you have a huge army with a lot of minis, but they work in units and that makes for very big battles. In SBG you do smaller battles and you can re inact scenes from the movie etc. I never played WoTR, but I think that SBG is a better and funner game system.

The pros of Mordor and the Misty Mountains is that they have a lot of models, if you are playing a game, you are always going to outnumber your opponents, except if you are playing against the same army. The cons are that they are not good warriors at their own at all. If you can't outnumber your opponent, you are lost. For Angmar, I have never seen someone play it, but I think it's kinda the same like Mordor.

Now Isengard, they are AWESOME!! (I play them myself ) Isengard is more like an elite army. Their warriors are far stronger than the warriors from Mordor or the Misty Mountains. The pros are that they are an excellent anti-cavalry army (pikes) and they have very good wizards (Saruman, Orc and Uruk-hai Shamans) and elite warriors (Berserkers).

If you are going to start with Isengard, you should first choose wether you want Raiders or the Legions of the White Hand. In the raiders list there are Uruk-hai Scouts, Wargs, Lurtz, and some more famous heroes. In the White Hand there are Fighting Uruk-hai (the ones from the siege of Helms Deep), Berserkers, Orcs and, of course, Saruman .

If you are going Raiders, get yourself 2 boxes of Scouts, 2 blisters of Feral Uruk-hai, the Ugluk and Vrasku blister and Lurtz. For the White Hand, get yourself a box of Fighting Uruk-hai, a box of Orcs, some Berserkers, some Crossbows, the Command Blister and the Saruman and Grima blister.

I hope that helped

Kiliaan

thanks kili , the thing is i love the idea of swarming enemies , but i like uruk hai also the isengard army sounds awsome but i really had my heart set on some winged nazgul or sauron , btw ive heard sauron is more of a novelty among minis , such as the equivelant of a titan or such in 40k .... is this true and is there any way of allying or anything

I'm not sure what you mean with ''a novelty among minis", English is not my first language, and I don't understand everything, but Sauron certainly is a 'titan' among the LoTR mini's. He is the highest point miniature in the game (I think) and he is very, very strong. You can't ally him with Isengard, but you can with the Misty Mountains.

As for the Nazgul, they can be allied with Isengard. In fact with almost every 'evil' army list.

Kiliaan

Sauron isn't normally played that often as most games are around 500ish points and if you use him plus the ring I beleive he comes to about 475. And yeah, he is incredibly hard to kill.

oh and by novelty i meant something that people want but it isnt really usefull and also saurons basically a one man army sort of thing?

Sauron is pretty much awesomesauce. In WotR, he gets two free might a turn, has epic channeling, and has mastery level five. He can kill trays a turn. It's crazy. But, yeah, at 500 points...yikes.

I can't help you with BSG. Don't play it, and no one at my local shop plays it. (we do have almost a dozen that play WotR though).

Back to the main topic, if you like Uruk-hai, Isengard all the way. I think that WotR is one of the best gaming systems that GW puts out, so it's worth a look. If you want to get started and are sure you are playing a non-misty mountains evil list, buy some orcs (either the Mordor or Morannan variety; people won't care which type they are, and buying both will give you a wider variety of minis). Mordor doesn't run without orcs, Isengard can use them, and they Angmar orcs provide much needed bodies for an Angmar list, since ghosts cost so <dang> much.

I only play WotR so I can't help you with SBG.

Mordor

Pros:
-Many different ways to play. Pretty much as access to all types of troops except heavy cavalry.
-Lots of cool(and good, ruleswise) Epic Heros and Legendary formations.
-RINGWRAITHS! Wraiths are generally viewed as under-priced Mastery Level 3 casters with not one, but two sweet lores of magics; and they also come with nifty abilities that range in usefulness from good to BROKEN(!). Mordor has access to them all without using ally points.

Cons:
-No heavy cavalry. Wargs are good and Trolls are a decent substitute, but it's not the same as Morgul Knights or Dol Amroth knights.
-Wraiths only have 1 Might and are challenge bait.
-Bad courage(apart from Epic Heroes). It's generally a problem with all the evil armies though.

Misty Mountains

Pros:
-Lots of cheap infantry with a pretty high move value
-Pretty much everything has Prowler(+1 to hit/kill when attacking a rear or flank)
-Many cool fast beasties. Wargs are about as good as Warg riders. Spiders hit pretty hard, but are fragile. Batclouds are not very strong or tough, but fast.
-MONSTERS! Stonegiants! Dragons! Balrogs! Cave Trolls! Spider Queens! Take your pick! There really are no wrong choices when it comes to your choice of monsters.
-Your (2)Epic Heroes are really good for their points.
-Drummers are awesome for their points. Basically they give the formation +1 movement, +1 courage, and re-roll failed courage tests.

Cons:
-Only the 2 Epic Heroes.
-Bad courage. Again, generally a problem for bad guys, but a bigger problem for Misty Mnts since you have the 2 Epics.
-You infantry is cheap, but Fragile. Expect your stuff to die.

Isenguard

Pros:
-Best infantry in the game. Hands down. Always take Pikes on your Uruk-hai. Berzerkers will murder everything they touch.
-Crossbows. Crossbows are awesome in the game.
-Awesome Epic Heroes. Sauruman is a really sweet caster and Lurtz is just mean. Even Grima is pretty nice at causing some mayhem in your opponent's army. There is another Epic hero who does not do much, but is really cheap for what he can do.
-Pretty good Legendary formations.
-Courage actually is not a big issue. Uruks have decent courage and Saruman give his high courage to nearby units.

Cons:
-A little pricey units. Don't get me wrong, your units are worth every point, just don't expect to outnumber many people.
-As good as Saruman is, he is your only caster epic hero and he is a bit pricey. You can ally wraiths though.

Angmar
-Ghosts! Pretty cool Ghostly formations with a lot of cool rules.
-Carn Dum warriors are pretty good and you have access to orcs to boost numbers
-Gulavhar, the Terror of Arnor, and Burdhur are freaking beasts. Used correctly, they can wreck entire formations.

Cons:
-Ghostly units are expensive(!) in points you have to be savy in their use. Every causality hurts.
-The only Epic Heros are 3 Wraiths. The Dwimmerlaik and the Tainted are pretty good, but the Witchking is not so good.
-Not a very large selection of units.
-Requires a bit of finesse to utilize your(fewer choices of) units to their extent.

As others have said war of the ring uses a lot more miniatures, but it's quite fun I find the strategy system more fun as you can make a decent army quite quickly with only a few purchases, and doesn't take very long to set up for a game. It's also more balanced, because SBG has ben around for a few more years, and wotr is only in its first edition, so there's a few rules problems.

As far as armies go, mordor is generally considered the most competitive out of the evil side's forces. They're very flexible with a wide range of units to select from, and decent leaders. On the other end of the scale is angmar, they're a very difficult army to use with mostly expensive specialised units (well for war of the ring anyway)

For your first minis, i recommend a box of morannon orcs, they're quite nice (for a plastic set) and they are very useful troops in the game.

thanks for all te help on baddies . Buut i decided against all reason (as p usual) to build a last alliance army with mainly elves and my friend is building the opposing mordor force...

Tzeentchling9 wrote:I only play WotR so I can't help you with SBG.

Mordor

Pros:
-Many different ways to play. Pretty much as access to all types of troops except heavy cavalry.
-Lots of cool(and good, ruleswise) Epic Heros and Legendary formations.
-RINGWRAITHS! Wraiths are generally viewed as under-priced Mastery Level 3 casters with not one, but two sweet lores of magics; and they also come with nifty abilities that range in usefulness from good to BROKEN(!). Mordor has access to them all without using ally points.

Cons:
-No heavy cavalry. Wargs are good and Trolls are a decent substitute, but it's not the same as Morgul Knights or Dol Amroth knights.
-Wraiths only have 1 Might and are challenge bait.
-Bad courage(apart from Epic Heroes). It's generally a problem with all the evil armies though.

Misty Mountains

Pros:
-Lots of cheap infantry with a pretty high move value
-Pretty much everything has Prowler(+1 to hit/kill when attacking a rear or flank)
-Many cool fast beasties. Wargs are about as good as Warg riders. Spiders hit pretty hard, but are fragile. Batclouds are not very strong or tough, but fast.
-MONSTERS! Stonegiants! Dragons! Balrogs! Cave Trolls! Spider Queens! Take your pick! There really are no wrong choices when it comes to your choice of monsters.
-Your (2)Epic Heroes are really good for their points.
-Drummers are awesome for their points. Basically they give the formation +1 movement, +1 courage, and re-roll failed courage tests.

Cons:
-Only the 2 Epic Heroes.
-Bad courage. Again, generally a problem for bad guys, but a bigger problem for Misty Mnts since you have the 2 Epics.
-You infantry is cheap, but Fragile. Expect your stuff to die.

Isenguard

Pros:
-Best infantry in the game. Hands down. Always take Pikes on your Uruk-hai. Berzerkers will murder everything they touch.
-Crossbows. Crossbows are awesome in the game.
-Awesome Epic Heroes. Sauruman is a really sweet caster and Lurtz is just mean. Even Grima is pretty nice at causing some mayhem in your opponent's army. There is another Epic hero who does not do much, but is really cheap for what he can do.
-Pretty good Legendary formations.
-Courage actually is not a big issue. Uruks have decent courage and Saruman give his high courage to nearby units.

Cons:
-A little pricey units. Don't get me wrong, your units are worth every point, just don't expect to outnumber many people.
-As good as Saruman is, he is your only caster epic hero and he is a bit pricey. You can ally wraiths though.

Angmar
-Ghosts! Pretty cool Ghostly formations with a lot of cool rules.
-Carn Dum warriors are pretty good and you have access to orcs to boost numbers
-Gulavhar, the Terror of Arnor, and Burdhur are freaking beasts. Used correctly, they can wreck entire formations.

Cons:
-Ghostly units are expensive(!) in points you have to be savy in their use. Every causality hurts.
-The only Epic Heros are 3 Wraiths. The Dwimmerlaik and the Tainted are pretty good, but the Witchking is not so good.
-Not a very large selection of units.
-Requires a bit of finesse to utilize your(fewer choices of) units to their extent.

Tzeentchling9 thank you for this! We have started our WoTR armies (I'm playing Dwarves) and I am wondering if you would be so kind as to do this exact same style of list for the Good armies in WoTR? that would be very helpful.

I've never really looked that deep into the good guys before(never considered playing any of the good guys), but I have a good bit of experience against dwarves. I'll write something up tomorrow.

Good guys are lame.

spyguyyoda wrote:Good guys are lame.

Is it weird that I read this in your voice?

eeelvees Are actually really good though their arrows tair whole squads apart to be minced by swordsmen and work well with ents

Tzeentchling9 wrote:

spyguyyoda wrote:Good guys are lame.

Is it weird that I read this in your voice?

No. Not at all...

@nuclearboi: Elves can be good, but you need to play higher points values to make up for the low body count. I have never lost to elves. I think it's their morals holding them back.

you are right i tend to have to stay back and shoot while scare tactics with my Ent
u

"Tair?"

tear ,sorry