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Okay, just to maximize my purchasing, a Grenadier platoon has 46 figures ($0.50 per figure). A Fallschirmjäger Platoon (Battleworn) has 40 figures ($0.575 per figure). Would I be able to buy a Grenadier Platoon and use them as a Fallschirmjäger Platoon? Or even a Pnzergrenadier Platoon ($0.58 per figure). Has their been any problems in tournaments by doing this?

At the local level (clubs and friends), proxy forces are fine i've had no problems using my Lehr as FJ.

On the subject of Tournaments, it depends. Some are very tight on WYSIWYG, some are about Historical accuracy, others are bit more lax. I would say go with Grenadiers as you could proxy them easily, the FJ with their distinctive headgear could be harder to pull off in the opposite direction.

Sorry for the woolly answer but it is very dependant on the Tournament organisers.

Warlord Imp wrote:Okay, just to maximize my purchasing, a Grenadier platoon has 46 figures ($0.50 per figure). A Fallschirmjäger Platoon (Battleworn) has 40 figures ($0.575 per figure). Would I be able to buy a Grenadier Platoon and use them as a Fallschirmjäger Platoon? Or even a Pnzergrenadier Platoon ($0.58 per figure). Has their been any problems in tournaments by doing this?

I don't know about tournaments (it really depends on the tournament organizer), but I wouldn't play you and I wouldn't enter any tournament that allowed proxying of that kind.

I'm not trying to be rude, but for me at least, the enjoyment of the game is derived as much from the accurate visual representation of the miniatures as from the game itself. If not, then we could all be playing with just the bases with bits of paper stuck to them.

And I'm not even going into the actual WW2 fanatics that would give you grief for having the wrong type of colour on your uniforms, let alone the wrong type of miniatures...

Yeah but Flames of War isn't like that is it? Its a Wargame in a Historical Context, not a Historical Wargame. There are a million things wrong with FOW if you are really pedantic about military history. But its fun and balanced, and allows a reasonable chance for both players to enjoy a competitive game.

War is never balanced, you don't allow your enemy to have another shot at you, because he "cocked" his shot do you? It's all about reasonable representation. I have seen some people get their knickers in a twist about it, if they get funny with me about historical accuracy, I usually say "I refuse to fight you, unless you recreate an exact replica of the battlefield that was actually fought on". This usually brings them to their senses about how unreasonable they are being. That or in extremis a good old bit anglo-saxon, usually leaves them terrified quickly followed by "So, are we gonna play toy soldiers? Or are you gonna pontificate about military affairs when you've never served a day in uniform in your life?" that always works but you won't win friends.

I am not a tournament player. My friends and I pay for the sheer enjoyment. All of us being in the army makes this game that much more dynamic.

While I enjoy the historical representation, without a LGS that supports the hobby, I am often forced to grenadiers as SS troops, and so forth. To me, that's not an issue what's so ever.

Mat

mwnciboo wrote:There are a million things wrong with FOW if you are really pedantic about military history.

"Really" ?. I've found you can find a few hundred thousand if you are just mildly pedantic, or a 'little bit picky'.

You know what I meant lol

Ha!

Mat

combat engineer wrote:I am not a tournament player. My friends and I pay for the sheer enjoyment. All of us being in the army makesout the modeling this game that much more dynamic.

While I enjoy the historical representation, without a LGS that supports the hobby, I am often forced to grenadiers as SS troops, and so forth. To me, that's not an issue what's so ever.

Mat

You aren't "forced" to do anything. You use proxies because you wan't to.

Like I said in my post, if you just wan't to enjoy the gaming part of FoW and don't care about the modelling and visual representation, then go for it, there isn't anyone preventing you from playing the game just with the plastic bases if you wan't. It is YOUR game after all.

So Mat, you 4 ESR? Or the Support unit 1 Engineering Support unit (based on your location).

On this topic then, I have for a time thought that I might use Paras to represent Commandos in a Brit Infantry list. Commandos are available as extra choices in allot of lists.

Both are elite infanty albeit with different special rules but would be clearly different from the rest of the PBI.

The only reason is that I have not seen any lists with Paras as additional platoon choices?

Para's were a valuable resource and not committed to battle just to beef up the line (Standfast the 101st in late 44 the Battle of the Bulge!).

EDIT - Once they had done the required Operation they were normally pulled back out of the line in reserve, to re-equip and get back to strength.

Accounts from 11th Armoured Div suggest otherwise?

@ mwnciboo - Was at 4 ESR, but am currently teaching at CTC Inf. Sch. heading back to the Regt in the summer.

Mat

mwnciboo wrote:Para's were a valuable resource and not committed to battle just to beef up the line (Standfast the 101st in late 44 the Battle of the Bulge!).

EDIT - Once they had done the required Operation they were normally pulled back out of the line in reserve, to re-equip and get back to strength.

Well, they were supposed to be anyway, but manpower issues tended to see them stuck in the line for rather longer than they should have been.

I agree that they were usually keep in the line rather longer than they should have been, but they were rotated out as soon as practicable. You don't waste High-end assault infantry in a line battle unless you have very few options in the cupboard.

I think Para-Platoons in normal lists would be awkward, as they would have to have different skill levels. So you would have a Confident Trained list, with other units that are fearless etc. It's not insurmountable, but It could lead to german units making their 2iC a Kampfgruppe of Fearless Veterans in list of confident trained. It's not insurmountable but people would definitely abuse it. I'm pretty sure there are lists out there that already have this but cannot think of them.

mwnciboo wrote:I agree that they were usually keep in the line rather longer than they should have been, but they were rotated out as soon as practicable. You don't waste High-end assault infantry in a line battle unless you have very few options in the cupboard.

I think Para-Platoons in normal lists would be awkward, as they would have to have different skill levels. So you would have a Confident Trained list, with other units that are fearless etc. It's not insurmountable, but It could lead to german units making their 2iC a Kampfgruppe of Fearless Veterans in list of confident trained. It's not insurmountable but people would definitely abuse it. I'm pretty sure there are lists out there that already have this but cannot think of them.

There are innumerable cases of lists with different ratings mixed together.

Almost all the German mid war North Africa lists have FJ as support, the same is true for German late war lists with FJ support and SS support (that are also rated FV).

The Italians are practically required to have different ratings in a single list due to their 8th million bayonets rule. Same for British 8th army armour that is frequently rated RV and can be used in CV lists. The Russians can also mix FT units as support of their normal FC lists, and the list goes on and on.

And you can only Kampfgruppe Combat and Weapon platoons, not Support Platoons. Combat and Weapon platoons come from the same Battalion and are more likely to have the same rating, Support Platoons come from regimental units or even entirely unrelated units that could have a completely different rating.

Fair enough, I forgot about the 8 million bayonets that was the obvious candidate!

I dont understand what you mean by 'maximizing your purchasing'... FoW is not 40k... the extra 6 minis that you get will be pretty much useless to you. A FJ platoon box contains a complete FJ platoon, the panzergrenadier platoon box contains a complete Panzergrenadier platoon. The two are not the same thing in any way. What good is an extra 6 models going to do you?

Grenadier Platoons have 8 Medium bases with 5 figures each base + 2 small bases with 3 figures each. By using this as an FJ Platoon, with 4 figures per base, you can fill 10 Medium bases + 2 small bases with 3 figures each. The regular FJ Platoon only has 9 Medium bases with 4 figure per base + 1 small base with 3 figures.

True that the extra medium base and small base would have no real purpose in the FJ platoon but the double duty of the infantry saves money and storage space depending on which infantry or army you want to field. Also, if you magnetize the last Medium base so you can use the 3 figures on a small base as 2iC for your FJ HQ, it leaves just 1 loner figure but maximized the grenadiers as FJ Platoon.

I still don't really see the point, but maybe its just me being very heavily biased towards FJ