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Let we players hope they are re-writing the book not canceling game

The gist of the rumor is that the focus will now be on LotR, and that WotR will be, at best, a specialist game. At this point, they really can't "cancel" WotR. They share models with LotR (a game they have dedicated themselves to), and there are existing rules. It will likely be harder to get people into it if the rulebook isn't being sold on the site anymore, I suppose...Here's hoping it is being revised and they just aren't telling us...

As a note of interest, on the Australian site it has been moved into a new catagory of "Lord of the Rings Expansions" not removed totally. It may not be the same elsewhere.

UK its in the expansions section as well, funnilly enough it only contains only War of the Ring stuff....SO WHY NOT JUST LEAVE IT AS WOTR LIKE IT WAS!!!!!!!
Sry GW raging over.....Ill go and sit back in the corner :/

WOTR is the equivalent of an a "40 apocalypse" expansion?

brainscan wrote:WOTR is the equivalent of an a "40 apocalypse" expansion?

I'm not familiar with WoTR or LoTR but WoTR seems to be similar to WHFB and LoTR more like 40k with a fantasy setting, you have round bases, units with split equipment, for example I see units with guys with bows and with spears such as bolters and meltas or flamers, I'm no expert but that's how it seems as an outsider looking to possibly get into it.

Hargus56 wrote:

brainscan wrote:WOTR is the equivalent of an a "40 apocalypse" expansion?

I'm not familiar with WoTR or LoTR but WoTR seems to be similar to WHFB and LoTR more like 40k with a fantasy setting, you have round bases, units with split equipment, for example I see units with guys with bows and with spears such as bolters and meltas or flamers, I'm no expert but that's how it seems as an outsider looking to possibly get into it.

WotR was pretty much the brainchild for 8th ed Fantasy while also being a strait-up 'army vs army' battle game as compared to the skirmish level of the LotR SBG.
It is a great game by itself, and it actually address alot of the biggest issues that exist in the current SBG - namely that close combat is highly biased and outright favours whoever has the higher Fight Value. WotR also balanced shooting, (to a point), and made magic viable for an entire game.

The big problem with WotR and imho, the glaring issue that ruined the game and made it hard to sell are;
a) Cost. Too many units still in metal blisters that only come 3 per pack. When of corse, your infantry units are bought in companies of 8 per tray, meaning you either buy up 3 full companies or have models left over.

b) Ward fethed-up the army lists big time!!! 40k players, (myself included), complain that GK's are OP. Fantasy players still haven't forgiven the obnoxious power house that was the Daemon of Chaos mess that ruined all of 7th edition.
WotR players either need to write out a comp list that could wrap around all of Canada's landmass, or else face the fact that every single game will be a '1st-turn-I-win' button.
(yes, the armies really are THAT stupid!)

When the book first came to us retail staff, my manager and I spent about 3 hours during a staff meeting reading & re-reading the rules and all the heroic/epic actions + special rules, and within about 15 minutes of writing up army lists, we realised the game would not work competitively as it was so open to outright d-baggery. (7th ed daemons are honestly quite tame by comparsion!)
To prove the point, my manager took a 1500pts elf list to the staff tourny the following month and won all 3 of his games on his first turn.
Sadly I was sick and couldn't go, but my Easterlings would have been equally as hienous!

Most of the time with WOTR, people just saw it as Fantasy with LOTR models, so they just figured stay with Fantasy. I think that they are making it a specialtist game like stated earlier. Personally I prefered SBG to WOTR anyways. The reason being: Each model could do its own thing, one kit = army, it seemed a bit more realistic. The disadvantage was that it took a long time to play say, Halm's Deep with all the models.

WOTR is still there! go to the books section. OR go to the getting started page and go to page 2.

Experiment 626 wrote:WotR players either need to write out a comp list that could wrap around all of Canada's landmass, or else face the fact that every single game will be a '1st-turn-I-win' button.
(yes, the armies really are THAT stupid!)

When the book first came to us retail staff, my manager and I spent about 3 hours during a staff meeting reading & re-reading the rules and all the heroic/epic actions + special rules, and within about 15 minutes of writing up army lists, we realised the game would not work competitively as it was so open to outright d-baggery. (7th ed daemons are honestly quite tame by comparsion!)
To prove the point, my manager took a 1500pts elf list to the staff tourny the following month and won all 3 of his games on his first turn.
Sadly I was sick and couldn't go, but my Easterlings would have been equally as hienous!

I agree with your post emphatically, at least up until that point.

There is some screwed up things about WotR army lists and some rules, no doubt there.

But this game is not meant or designed to be played in tournaments. And frankly, GW tournaments are just setting the player up for failure because I know of NO recent GW game whose rules are good enough to be scrutinized for tourney play.

LotR/WotR are casual thematic games were scenarios and theme play a larger role than the tightness of the rules.

I readily admit some point spreads and mechanics can and are frustrating. But overall, the game is still one of GW's better designs in recent years. Flaws and all.

Hellfury wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:WotR players either need to write out a comp list that could wrap around all of Canada's landmass, or else face the fact that every single game will be a '1st-turn-I-win' button.
(yes, the armies really are THAT stupid!)

When the book first came to us retail staff, my manager and I spent about 3 hours during a staff meeting reading & re-reading the rules and all the heroic/epic actions + special rules, and within about 15 minutes of writing up army lists, we realised the game would not work competitively as it was so open to outright d-baggery. (7th ed daemons are honestly quite tame by comparsion!)
To prove the point, my manager took a 1500pts elf list to the staff tourny the following month and won all 3 of his games on his first turn.
Sadly I was sick and couldn't go, but my Easterlings would have been equally as hienous!

I agree with your post emphatically, at least up until that point.

There is some screwed up things about WotR army lists and some rules, no doubt there.

But this game is not meant or designed to be played in tournaments. And frankly, GW tournaments are just setting the player up for failure because I know of NO recent GW game whose rules are good enough to be scrutinized for tourney play.

LotR/WotR are casual thematic games were scenarios and theme play a larger role than the tightness of the rules.

I readily admit some point spreads and mechanics can and are frustrating. But overall, the game is still one of GW's better designs in recent years. Flaws and all.

I know GW has always admited that they don't write their games with the intention of them being an actual 'tournament ruleset', but it seems like that's the way the community as a whole is heading. Just look at how many local tournies take place! At least in my area, every single store that sells GW product runs monthly tournies, plus there's a GTA-wide league that offers a top monetary prize that equates to roughly a 1500pts army! Too much mercenary mentality going on and it leads to otherwise great games being ruined.

I agree that WotR is and never was ment to be a balanced competitive game, hence why we broke it so quickly and with very little effort! The staff tourny that year saw hienous things like the 3 mumak Fallen Realms army, or the Dwarf 'Iron Wall' backed up by wizards, or the Wraith Circus and other such silliness.
My own list was just gross at 1500pts:
6 company Easterling pike formation includ Khamul, Saruman, Betrayer, Amdur.
2x 1 company Easterling archer formation
rest of pts into a single Kataphract formation w/Captain + Banner + Sigil of Fallen Kings fate.
Basically it revolved around shoving the main unit down your throat, Saruman shattering shields then raising back depleated companies, the wraiths saping everyone's courage and Amdur going epic rampage on everything! (the Betrayer of corse ensured that epic rampage auto-killed whatever formation I was fighting!) The archers held objectives while the kataphraks raced off and took out missile threats.

My manager's list was even worse;
All 3 epic shooting elf heroes + elrond, gil-galad, galadriel.
3 company formation of high elves
2 company formation of elven cohort
gildor's household
He actually faced off against the 3 mumak army and machine-gunned all three of the biggies on his first turn. Made the other actually shed his man tear too!

I think people trying to make the game into a competitive tournament game is what really killed WotR off. The SBG can at least be very easily be comped into a decent tourny game by limiting things like the 'free' might points or will points certain characters get. (Aragorn is actually balanced once you remove his free might point every turn and thus remove his 'auto-win' button)

When playing WotR as it's intended as a more laid back and themed game, I find it to be the best rules set GW has produced!