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Hi,

I have been working on a grey knights 1750 point army list for a while and i would like to hear your thoughts about it. The idea behind my list is to play defensive with mostly shooting. I will have a Land raider with 2 lascannnons with 4 paladins and 1 techmarine to provide both anti tank with my lascannons and also cc with anti mass (flamer and holocaust from my Paladins). My jokaero will take care of the object at my deploying zone and will also be accompanied with Coteaz in ruins to get the +1 cover from techmarine, and my dreads will stay next to them so i can get use of "I´ve expecting you" from Coteaz. Please give me your thoughts about the list and if things are confusing just give me a replay and i will try to make that clear (sorry for my english). here it goes

Coteaz: 100


Elite

1 Techmarine(WardingStave RadGrenades Psychotroke Grenades Meltabomb) 145

4 Paladin(3x ForceSwords, 1 hammer)220

Vindicare assassin: 145

Troops

5 Acolyte(3xPlasma 2xLasgun, Chimera 115
5 Acolyte(3xPlasma 2xLasgun, Chimera 115
5 Acolyte(3xMelta 2xLasgun, Chimera)115
5 Acolyte(3xMelta 2xLasgun, Chimera)115
4 Jokaero Weaponsmith 140

Heavy Support

Land raider 270 extra armour

2 Dreads(2x autocannon, Psybolt amu) 270

1750


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Come on guys give me som response !!!

The Techmarine definitely doesn't need melta bombs as got the servo harness, which is a power fist. Maybe drop the stave too as the Techmarine is only a single wound model, though you do need those grenades.

Paladins should have mixed wargear for wound allocation trickery. Just make a sword master crafted and add a psycannon onto another or something.

I think the single Land Raider is asking for trouble, at this points level it won't be hard to take out and it will have a big target on it. I would consider another option to deliver the Paladins.

Hope that helps.

Hi Mercer!
Nice to hear from you again
What you said about the LandRaider I have been thinking the same... If thats the case i see no other option to swap it into a gunship which will also give me some extra points. Anyway if I go with Land raider i will make sure it is in cover most of the time and with techmarine support i hope that will be enough. And yes Im working on the paladins. It all depends if im going land raider or not and how much points i got left.

And about the warding stave: Isn´t it obvious thats the way to go? I mean i want to keep techmarine alive

Well if you switch it for a gunship then you've got the same problem target saturation wise. At least you can get the Paladins to the fight quicker.

Like I said about the Techmarine, he's a one wound model, so is it worth adding the stave for that much points? Though you do want him to live for grenade nastyness.

With Land Raider i will hopefully stay in cc (in the late game, this squad is made to interrupt hordes and other strong cc units)and +2 Inv save is really nasty. Specially against other hard cc units. I think i will try with this list for now and see what happens. As I said earlier i will keep Land raider as much out of sight and in cover as much as possible with other words i will play very defensive with it which my opponent wont expect. If it goes out really well I will destroy their anti tank before the destroy me. 4 lascannons from monkeys 2 dreads and 1 vindicare should be able to do it. I have also 2 twin linked lascannons on the Land raider with the spirit rule.

Paladins won't cause much hurt to hordes, they are the same as normal Terminators, and weight of attacks will bring them down sooner or later. They will be perfect for taking out other elite units though. Paladins don't have a 2+ invulnerable save, they have 4+ with force swords.

Having a Land Raider playing defensively is a bad idea. It's a aggressive delivery vehicle. If it's hiding and hanging back, then you're doing the opponent a favour and holding back your units. This is a waste of points and unit. If you're not holding the Paladins inside the Land Raider (or any unit) then you're wasting points taking a Land Raider.

You haven't got loads of anti tank either, the ginger apes are BS3 so will only hit two shots, the Dreadnoughts are ok, so is the Vindicare, though not hard to take out a Vindicare. If you're playing defensive with the Land Raider and hiding it, then chances are you won't draw LOS anyway. If you can see the opponent, then he can can see you.

Sorry i was not clear enough about the inv saves. Yes i know they will only get +4 inv. When i say defensive i dont mean stay back and just watch. I will keep it moving forward and catch up my opponents cc squads. About the anti hordes that squad has both flamer and Holocaust. But im actually not afraid to face hordes. I think my shooting can take care of that (heavy bolters on the chimera for example). Anyway there is another option instead of taking the land raider and that would be add one more dreadnought and add some more henchmen. I will go deeper with the calculations to solve that problem. But first it would be nice to hear your responce, cheers.

For what you're trying to achieve, wouldn't you be better delivering the Paladins using a Stormraven? That way you could also deliver a normal or venerable MM/CCW dreadnought to support the Paladins at the same time as well as having fun with the SR's MM. As it is, the LR is slower, and the Paladins/LR is expensive for just a counterattack unit.

If you're set on the Jokaero/Coteaz group (and Vindicare I guess) in the bolstered cover, I think you're missing out on the use of servitors with plasma cannons: I'd fit 3 in. They have great range and with 3 of them you'll get at least one good hit. Some people say they're too expensive, but they've appeared on the top seeded GK Adepticon lists and I rate them highly from personal experience. This would also create synergy (extra value for your points) for your army as the plasma cannons would get good boosts from the 2 remaining Jokaeros' weapon augmentations.

honken wrote:Sorry i was not clear enough about the inv saves. Yes i know they will only get +4 inv. When i say defensive i dont mean stay back and just watch. I will keep it moving forward and catch up my opponents cc squads. About the anti hordes that squad has both flamer and Holocaust. But im actually not afraid to face hordes. I think my shooting can take care of that (heavy bolters on the chimera for example). Anyway there is another option instead of taking the land raider and that would be add one more dreadnought and add some more henchmen. I will go deeper with the calculations to solve that problem. But first it would be nice to hear your responce, cheers.

Chimeras with heavy bolters aren't enough for hordes, no where near. Against Orks, the Chimeras will hit 2 shots, wound with 1 and the Orks have 50% chance of cover save if there is one.

For what you're trying to achieve, wouldn't you be better delivering the Paladins using a Stormraven? That way you could also deliver a normal or venerable MM/CCW dreadnought to support the Paladins at the same time as well as having fun with the SR's MM. As it is, the LR is slower, and the Paladins/LR is expensive for just a counterattack unit.

If you're set on the Jokaero/Coteaz group (and Vindicare I guess) in the bolstered cover, I think you're missing out on the use of servitors with plasma cannons: I'd fit 3 in. They have great range and with 3 of them you'll get at least one good hit. Some people say they're too expensive, but they've appeared on the top seeded GK Adepticon lists and I rate them highly from personal experience. This would also create synergy (extra value for your points) for your army as the plasma cannons would get good boosts from the 2 remaining Jokaeros' weapon augmentations.

I must admit you have some really good points. Have been struggling about stormraven or land raider and also if servitors are worth to count in. And since you claim to have alot of experiences with those i will take your advice in guard. Damn this is so hard to decide. Let me calculate how much gunship 3 servitors instead of land raider. I might also remove the techmarine to cc dreadnought brb let me do the math.

A Stormraven is 205 points, your Land Raider is 270, 65 points difference.

Ok so i made out a list right away please leave your thoughts:

Coteaz: 100


Elite

1x vurn dread( Had heavy flamer with psyflame amu in mind since the paladins cant provide that much horde killing) 180

2x Paladin(1x No idea yet depends on if the vurn dread has melta or flamer)110

Vindicare assassin: 145

Troops

5 Acolyte(3xPlasma 2xLasgun, Chimera 115
5 Acolyte(3xPlasma 2xLasgun, Chimera 115
5 Acolyte(3xMelta 2xLasgun, Chimera)115
5 Acolyte(3xMelta 2xLasgun, Chimera)115
2 Jokaero Weaponsmith 70
3 Servitors (3xPlasma Cannons)60

Fast Attack

StormRaven Gunship(ExtraArmour, Multi-melta and lascannon)220 Paladins and vurn Dread will mount this


Heavy Support


3 Dreads(3x autocannon, Psybolt amu) 405

1750




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think i solved some problems here

Now i have anto horde as mercer suggested and also 3 normal dreads! Have also more anti tank and the servitors will get the jokaero buff (hope to get some badass roll...) my paladins can support my inv dreadnought with both anti horde and maybe aid him with a thunder hammer.
Hope my changes makes some sence, atleast you two are the experts. Never played Grey knights before but as i said hope the changes are good. Feel free to leave a comment or two

Mercer will undoubtedly have better advice than me on this, but I think your paladin group is too few, especially as you're paying for an expensive delivery system. I was thinking of dropping a psyfleman and the SR extra armour to buy 3 more paladins but you wouldn't quite have the points. But you would have the points if you dropped 3 hotshot lasguns. (I'd downgrade all the hotshot lasguns to stormbolters anyway.) Drop 2 more hotshot lasguns to mastercraft two of the paladin weapons for full wound allocation shenanigans.

This would give you 5 paladins with full wound allocation and a venerable dread coming off your SR, which seems to fit your original plan well.

Before I do the math. What about a Normal dread Mount the SR instead of a vurn dread?

I like the tech marine in your original list. He pairs very well with vindicare, as he can bolster a ruin and give the good 'ol vindy a 2+ cover save.

You have to see him as a force multiplier. Having him makes the rest of your army better as a whole.

That being said, if you bring the tech marine back and pick up some servo skulls, deep striking the paladins in becomes very viable. That means you could drop the stormraven (which will probably do poorly if you are taking only one) and spend those points elsewhere.

If you are going to take paladins at all, I would recommend a 5-man squad at a minimum. Grab 2 psycannons, a warding stave, and kit out the rest as you see fit for wound allocation. Eventually the tech marine can catch up to them (I imagine he will be hanging back with the chimeras to keep them afloat), and really give that squad some oomph.

Keep the psyflemen dreads, but maybe drop the ven.

You may also want to consider a unit or two of deathcult assassins. Great counter-charge units. They can be used to support your paladins (if you keep them), or to protect/act as a deterrent for charging into your acolytes.

On extra armor: Useless in a GK list, as all GK vehicles have fortitude and POTMS. The fortitude power (if cast successfully) lets you simply ignore shaken ans stunned results. If you DO happen to be shaken or stunned, POTMS will still let you shot one of your guns anyway. So extra armor is a definite do not buy for GK.

Wow!!!
What some damn good advices seriously thank you, you made this even more complicated for me Hopefully with your help i might be able to solve all these problems...
Must say that Im not that kind of player that "have to go Paladins because they are cool" Im always looking for the absolute best army I can get.
Im on your side about the dreads I think 3 dreads will do a great job and im not sure about the vurn as you said. Have actually never thought of not to go LR or GS.
The dca squad sounds interesting and also 5 Paladins that would deep strike. btw Im aware that 5 would be best but i just never had the points, sadly ;( But without LR nor GS i should be able to also upgrade them to its full capability.
You think that the Techmarine should be fully upgraded with all those grenades? The melta bomb can be over kill but who knows...

Im gonna upgrade my list once more havent done the math yet but had some thoughts about going the 5 paladin squad with 2 psycannons obviously and they deepstrike. And then 3 psyfleman dreads and the techmarine will go along withthe 4 chimeras forth until he reach my Paladins.



So army looks like this at the moment:

Coteaz: 100


Elite

1 Techmarine(WardingStave RadGrenades Psychotroke Grenades Meltabomb 3x servoSkull) 154 Actually I dont know what numer that is the best of how many Servo-Skulls I should take. I asume its 3

5 Paladin(psyamu 2x psycannon 5x mastercrafted 1x wardingstave)365

Vindicare assassin: 145

Troops

6 Acolyte(3xPlasma 3xStormBolter, Chimera 118
5 Acolyte(3xPlasma 2xStormBolter, Chimera 111
5 Acolyte(3xMelta 2xStormBolter, Chimera)111
5 Acolyte(3xMelta 2xStormBolter, Chimera)111
2 Jokaero Weaponsmith 70
3 servitor 3plasma cannon 60
Heavy Support



3 Dreads(3x autocannon, Psybolt amu) 405

1750

The new list is looking alright, dude. Stick with it and see how it pans out. I am not a fan of those Servitors though YMMV.

The techmarine can't deepstrike to be with the paladins as was your intention, so you're not quite there.

@Sethorly: The techmarine is supposed to go along with the chimeras in the beginning and then meet up with the Paladins.

@mercer: Thanks dude, finally you agree^^, Awesome! Can´t wait to try it! Hope the cannons will pay off, if not im going for something else but im gonna stick with this list for now.

Thank you all for supporting me! Wish to see you again in a new thread^^ "For the Grey Knights!"

I'm liking the list. You'll have to let us know how it plays for you.

The melta bombs on the tech marine are overkill, as is MCing all of the pally weapons. Psybolt ammo too. Think of it like this: Since two of the pallys have psycannons, you are paying 20 points for three guys to have S5 bolters. There has to be a better way to spend that ~50 or so points. More/different henchmen? Anyway, totally your call on that. GL man.

@Bean's Herald: I might Agree with you on that, will think about it

Heyo!

I've been tracking this thread since it popped up simply because it's fairly similar to what I'm aspiring to create right now.
Thanks to all posters for your input, by helping the OP you've given me things to think about as well


Here are my 2cents (or öre) on the list:

1: Paladins in Storm Raven. Not a bad idea, but what is the purpose? Will you be loading them into the Raven and go for squishy targets? Go contest objectives? Bog down incoming infantry?
Once you move the raven out there on the board it's a sitting duck. Yes, the paladins can handle it exploding, but what I mean is that you probably only get to deliver them once.
I personally chose to add mystics to select henchmen squads and stick DCAs/Crusaders in the Raven. By holding the paladins in deep strike I can then choose where to bring them down without scatter.
First turn or so the raven will be shooty-shooty from 36" (or more). Thoughts?

2. Totally relying on chimaeras to protect your shooters. With only 6 bodies in each chimera, once that transport is popped theyll die immediately. You only have to take 4 wounds on 5+ armor to never be allowed to regroup. I always found chimeras to be squishy, then again I shoot psycannon volleys. Maybe other armies will have a hard time piercing them? But what about hordes? Can you really shoot down a green tide? (You have no real torrent-of-fire options, just very high quality weaponry with a low amount of shots).

3. Mastercrafting Paladins. Often worth it, often a point sink. Personal opinion is that the best thing to mastercraft on paladins is psycannons, hammers and incinerators.

4. With Coteaz babysitting your servitors you lose out on the best thing about him: Sanctuary and Hammerhand. Adding Coteaz to a close combat squad for his psychic powers much improves the use of those 100pts in my opinion.

I guess all in all I would prefer it if you added some sort of countercharge units around your gunline. Or can the Psyflenaughts fill that position? A 260pt strike squad could fill this purpose by adding 8 stormbolters and 2 stationary psycannons, and also making it hard for the opponent to deep strike close to your firebase due to Warp Quake.

Also I think the techmarine is worth it if it accompanies your paladins.

Zeal wrote:But what about hordes? Can you really shoot down a green tide? (You have no real torrent-of-fire options, just very high quality weaponry with a low amount of shots).

I guess all in all I would prefer it if you added some sort of countercharge units around your gunline.

I agree. My countercharge unit is 5 DCA in a psyback for 125 pts in a 1500 list. It's dangerous and not too expensive and I love 'em. Because they're countercharge you don't need an Assault vehicle, just careful initial placement. They can handle depleted horde units.

Having said that it may be a valid tactic in a highly mobile henchman list to miss out countercharge units altogether: each unit is cheap so you could treat them as sacrificial lambs (or chess pawns) by drawing their assaulters away from every other one of your units. Great, the ork boyz have all waaaghd into your 100 pt chimera unit and destroyed it, but now they're exposed with all your other units having backed off. I think this ability to accept a sacrifice and use mobility to escape from chained assault is a strength of the highly mobile and cheap assault-weapon henchman force.

There is so much variety in a henchman list though especially when you factor in the tactics that are going to be used that these considerations may only vaguely apply to the OP's list.

@ Zeal Hi,

I will express one statement one by one :

1. As you can see in my latest army repost I have no raven there anymore. My Paladins will deep strike down with help of TechMarines Servo-skulls when the time comes. My techmarine will go forward along with the 4 Chimeras in order to keep them up, hopefully... Later on he will join the paladin squad and get some mega use of all his grenades. The 5 Paladins have many roles. Depends what im facing. When facing hordes they have Holocaust and also their big blast psycannons, also the techmarine includes one flamer (worth to mention). When it comes to bigger guys (depends on if they have more then 1 W or not) i will use hammerhand or activate the forceweapon, which is obvious. And with techmarines support the cc squad i face will suffer -1 T and give the whole squad another STR with his hammer and hopefully get some nice OP roll on the psycotroke grenade. I think they would be able to handle mostly they face.

What you said about the Mystic is very interesting. It could be worth having atleast 1 Mystic in 1 chimera. But you have to remember that it cost 10 points. Well it isn´t that much but if you add 1 Mystic you dont use the Servo-skulls full potention (with other words this would be overkill).

2. Exactly! The idea by taking that many Chimeras is to remove huge % of my opponents army. I force him to destroy my vechicles before he can even touch my troops. By doing this he will only be able to get use of a small %age of his army (hopefully). As I said in my first statement i have some anti horde Flamer on techmarine, Psycannons and Holocaust. Ofcourse I will adept my Paladins depending on what i face, for instance if i face orks i might be playing defensively with them to support my chimeras against those hordes. And ofcourse, acolytes have some firepower too.

4. That may be true. But he is also good back there I will tell you why! I can add 3 awesome servitors with plasma cannons and get use of the Servo-skulls. Also with 2 monkeys they may get some awesome buff like 12 " more range. The best part is Coteaz spell "I´ve been expecting you" which makes it much more difficult for your oponent to deepstrike close to Coteaz, your Dreads and Vindicare (if ther are stacked). This also makes you Invurnable against Deep striking Meltas which is rather common. Ofcourse this depends on how your battlefield looks like, but this should be able if you are allowd to deploy your cover by yourself.

Your conclusion may be true actually. I have no idea how this list is gonna work out. I hope it will do some good. If not im going for something different but first lets see how these boys handle it.

Hope I made things clear

Cheers

@Sethorly If im gonna use DCA i have to remove 1 squad of Plasma think that actually could be worth it since all you guys recommend me to do so What say you?
So my troop choices would be 2 meltas 1 plasma and 1 death cult assassin in a Razorback any thoughts?

Okey Guys Im not done yet with the army list Im probably going 10 man Purifiers instead of 5 Paladins and make them into combat squads came up with this idea right now. The reason why i will do this is because of anti hordes and they will be more mobile they are also cheaper. Think that would do the trick... Any thoughts?
And also how do you think Purifiers will do along with techmarine? not to bad I think...
OBS: Also worth to mention im not looking for a cool army list. Aiming for the best and most adeptive Grey Knights army list I can get. But I would never Copy paste someone else list!

You guys there?