Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm a bit of a World War II junkie and I wanted to make a list with Imperial Guard that represented the kind of fighting the Wehrmacht would have put up in the early years of the war, when they had great success with the blitzkrieg. To this end, I made a list that featured mechanized infantry, tanks, air support, and artillery. Here it is.

Company Command Squad - 205
-Captain with Plasma Pistol
-4 Veterans with Plasma Guns
-Officer of the Fleet
-Chimera with Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad - 180
-Sergeant with Plasma Pistol
-3 Veterans with Plasma Guns
-Chimera with Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad - 155
-3 Veterans with Melta Guns
-6 Veterans with Shot Guns
-Chimera with Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad - 155
-3 Veterans with Melta Guns
-6 Veterans with Shot Guns
-Chimera with Heavy Flamer

Platoon Command Squad - 125
-4 Guardsmen with Melta Guns
-Chimera with Heavy Flamer

Combined Infantry Squad - 175
-Commissar with Power Sword
-2 Sergeants with Plasma Swords
-2 Guardsmen with Flamers
-16 Guardsmen with Las Guns

Combined Infantry Squad - 175
-Commissar with Power Sword
-2 Sergeants with Power Swords
-2 Guardsmen with Flamers
-16 Guardsmen with Las Guns

Vendetta - 130

Vendetta - 130

Hydra Flak Tank Battery - 150
-2 Hydra Flak Tanks

Hydra Flak Tank Battery - 150
-2 Hydra Flak Tanks

Ordnance Battery - 280
-2 Basilisks with Enclosed Crew Compartments and Heavy Flamers

The list is pretty easy to figure out. The 5 Chimeras surge forward to engage the enemy while the Vendettas provide air support. The infantry squads, Hydras, and the Ordnance Battery typically deploy in a refused flank formation, with the squads in front to protect my static hardware from assault. I gave them flamers to deal with anything that gets too close. I included an officer of the fleet because I play against space wolves a lot and wolf scouts make me rage when they come in on my own edge and blow up important vehicles.

No stormtroopers?

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:No stormtroopers?

Ooh danger zone. But they would be good for a Fallschirmjäger unit or two

Love the idea (I'm a WW2 junkie myself). It's a shame there's no room to add a couple Leman Russ variants into the list to represent the heavier tanks (such as the Tigers).

Also, it will be a terrible terrible shame if you don't turn the chimeras into halftracks.

guess you think the wehrmacht is ...cool ?

dante43dd wrote: guess you think the wehrmacht is ...cool ?

I'm not really sure what you're trying to insinuate here. 'Cool' isn't exactly the right word I would use to describe it. I admire their efficiency and tenacity in the early years of the war, and I wanted to make an army list that reflected how they went about doing that. Does that mean I condone the Einsatzgruppen, Kristalnacht, or the Holocaust? No, it does not.

If that's NOT what you were getting at with your facepalm, do explain yourself.

As to the other comments, I would love to do half track Chimeras but I'm not very good with conversions and I highly doubt there's a kit out there that would do the work for me. And yes, it is regrettable I couldn't fit Russes in here to represent the Tigers. Perhaps at higher points levels.

Imperial Guard and efficiency?

Two things that I would never put into the same sentence.

They're the type of force that bring a nuke to a knife fight.

But I see where you are going here. I know someone who has a WW2 Ork army. It's insane and looks amazing.

dante43dd wrote: guess you think the wehrmacht is ...cool ?

If I recognize the country flag next to your profile picture, I understand that the wermacht left a vastly different memory in Poland than it did in the US and Canada. I respect that, and that it may be sound very strange for people to think about the wehrmacht like that. But I agree with the OP that acknowledging that the wermacht was the best army at the beginning of WW2 is simple truth, but is incredibly different from in any way condoning what the Nazis did. I'm disgusted every time I hear the stories of what went on. I got to speak with a holocaust survivor at an event at my university. He told me and a few other students his stories in the morning, I didn't touch food the rest of the day. However, there is nothing wrong in a game where most armies are highly mechanized, and that puts you in command of an army, to model a list after an army that nearly perfected mechanized warfare.

I do not think that they were cool. They were efficient. Be warned however that people from many countries will be offended by your choice. I knew a guy who wen as far as to paint red arm bands and swastikas on his guard. It was a treat to smash them with my Orks, who while not painted as Israelis are Blue and White. Only Dr Menegle escaped. His Hitler Commisar died under Orky blades. Vengeance for the ancestors!

Ricedaddy wrote:

dante43dd wrote: guess you think the wehrmacht is ...cool ?

If I recognize the country flag next to your profile picture, I understand that the wermacht left a vastly different memory in Poland than it did in the US. I respect that, and that it may be sound very strange for people to think about the wehrmacht like that. But I agree with the OP that acknowledging that the wermacht was the best army at the beginning of WW2 is simple truth, but is incredibly different from in any way condoning what the Nazis did. I'm disgusted every time I hear the stories of what went on. I got to speak with a holocaust survivor at an event at my university. He told me and a few other students his stories in the morning, I didn't touch food the rest of the day. However, there is nothing wrong in a game where most armies are highly mechanized, and that puts you in command of an army, to model a list after an army that nearly perfected mechanized warfare.

Yeah thats the flag of Austria
The moral of the story is if you creat an army based on WW2 Germany be prepared for this type of reaction a lot outside of Flames of War. It is not remembered fondly.

Ha ha. Oops. Like I said, if I recognized it correctly. Changing it from Poland to Austria still makes my point true. It may not have been a military conquest, but the Anschluss (spelling?) was a conquest all the same. Thanks for the correction, though!

Last I checked WWII was 70 years ago and no one on this board was alive to experience it, so if someone is "offended" by anything related to it then they probably have the mental toughness of a 7 year old school girl. People quickly forget how many people were killed under Stalin's rule, close to 15 million and a total of 25 million total deaths from WWII, yet people rarely if ever get "offended" when someone makes "The Red Army."

People don't have to like what happened but they should respect it. The Wehrmacht was arguably the toughest and most professional organization of military fighters in it's time that revolutionized the way we look at war and how to fight one. Thankfully we were able to slowly wear them down.

Let's be honest what does Forge World's DKoK Army closet resemble???

As far as the list, it looks solid. WWII had horrible artillery however, much of which was horse drawn. I would try and swap those out for Leman Russ's to act as Panthers or Tigers.

@Silentway

I agree with your comment, since I got Ninja'ed by your posting.

Silentway wrote:Last I checked WWII was 70 years ago and no one on this board was alive to experience it, so if someone is "offended" by anything related to it then they probably have the mental toughness of a 7 year old school girl. People quickly forget how many people were killed under Stalin's rule, close to 15 million and a total of 25 million total deaths from WWII, yet people rarely if ever get "offended" when someone makes "The Red Army."

People don't have to like what happened but they should respect it. The Wehrmacht was arguably the toughest and most professional organization of military fighters in it's time that revolutionized the way we look at war and how to fight one. Thankfully we were able to slowly wear them down.

Let's be honest what does Forge World's DKoK Army closet resemble???

As far as the list, it looks solid. WWII had horrible artillery however, much of which was horse drawn. I would try and swap those out for Leman Russ's to act as Panthers or Tigers.

Civilians killed totaled from 40 to 52 million, including 13 to 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 22 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war. Not exactly seeing why I should give the Wehrmacht any respect. And I do not get offended by "The Red Army" because they won WW2 with us and actually did most the fighting.

And honestly DKoK is modeled after WW1 - Not as emotionaly charged ,probably because fewer 7 year old school girls were dragged into fields and shot during that time than WW2.

Tun_Tau wrote:

Silentway wrote:Last I checked WWII was 70 years ago and no one on this board was alive to experience it, so if someone is "offended" by anything related to it then they probably have the mental toughness of a 7 year old school girl. People quickly forget how many people were killed under Stalin's rule, close to 15 million and a total of 25 million total deaths from WWII, yet people rarely if ever get "offended" when someone makes "The Red Army."

People don't have to like what happened but they should respect it. The Wehrmacht was arguably the toughest and most professional organization of military fighters in it's time that revolutionized the way we look at war and how to fight one. Thankfully we were able to slowly wear them down.

Let's be honest what does Forge World's DKoK Army closet resemble???

As far as the list, it looks solid. WWII had horrible artillery however, much of which was horse drawn. I would try and swap those out for Leman Russ's to act as Panthers or Tigers.

Civilians killed totaled from 40 to 52 million, including 13 to 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 22 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war. Not exactly seeing why I should give the Wehrmacht any respect. And I do not get offended by "The Red Army" because they won WW2 with us and actually did most the fighting.

And honestly DKoK is modeled after WW1 - Not as emotionaly charged ,probably because fewer 7 year old school girls were dragged into fields and shot during that time than WW2.

This is akin to saying you don't care about a tabletop representation of the Red Army simply because they fought on the side of the Allies, despite the fact that Stalin actually did some pretty horrible things and killed a whole lot of people. Yet at the same time, your reasoning for not showing the Wehrmacht respect is based solely on the number of deaths involved. I'm not really trying to brook an argument here, I'm just letting you know how you're coming across Tun_ Tau

As for everyone else, I'm glad people acknowledge that admiring the Wehrmacht does not necessitate condoning the Nazi regime. I personally didn't think I would stir any emotional reaction just for building a list around the way they fought - I certainly wasn't going to field 28mm Nazis with red arm bands or anything else like that. Building the list was just a strategic exercise to duplicate blitzkrieg on the tabletop.

I have a much more sympathetic attitude to people defending their homes and lives vs. people playing follow the leader and burning the world down maybe.
Stalin was an insane meglomaniac just as much as Hitler but for the above reasons I'm not as offended by the red army theme.
I'm have to appologize though to the OP. My intent was to say be prepared to some raised brows with a wehrmacht theme and not get into a tangle.

Tun_Tau wrote:

Civilians killed totaled from 40 to 52 million, including 13 to 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 22 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war. Not exactly seeing why I should give the Wehrmacht any respect. And I do not get offended by "The Red Army" because they won WW2 with us and actually did most the fighting.

Which deaths are you referring to? Caused by the Wehrmacht or total from WWII because total deaths was only about 55 million and that's including 15 million of Stalins own people (25 million total casualties) and 15 million from China much of which were their own. The Wehrmacht is quite a small number compared to China and The former Soviet Union.

Love to see your source. Mine is WWII: A Short History 5th Edition but a simple Google search will yield similar data

This thread makes me sad....my grandfather died at Auschwitz....

KGatch113 wrote:This thread makes me sad....my grandfather died at Auschwitz....

Do many internet threads make you feel sad?

What else makes you feel sad? it's ok, let it out.

Trying to get this thread back on topic

Looks like a fairly solid list to me. Conversion wise if you really want chimera half tracks chapter house does conversion kits to make chimera's wheeled rather than tracked i don't imagine it would take a lot to adapt them to be just the front wheels but I have never seen the kit in person so may be wrong.

I wonder if you could drop some infantry and add the Leman russ. Just have 1 platoon of infantry with regular squads. That might let you take a piece of Armor.

Silentway wrote:Last I checked WWII was 70 years ago and no one on this board was alive to experience it, so if someone is "offended" by anything related to it then they probably have the mental toughness of a 7 year old school girl. People quickly forget how many people were killed under Stalin's rule, close to 15 million and a total of 25 million total deaths from WWII, yet people rarely if ever get "offended" when someone makes "The Red Army."

People don't have to like what happened but they should respect it. The Wehrmacht was arguably the toughest and most professional organization of military fighters in it's time that revolutionized the way we look at war and how to fight one. Thankfully we were able to slowly wear them down.

Let's be honest what does Forge World's DKoK Army closet resemble???

As far as the list, it looks solid. WWII had horrible artillery however, much of which was horse drawn. I would try and swap those out for Leman Russ's to act as Panthers or Tigers.

well thanks for making me a couple of years younger, mate. appreciated.
the german army in second WW achieved a lot of victories by raiding - for example poland, greece, norway etc. after that they ran out of steam, mainly because their strategic understanding was - luckily - strongly underdeveloped.
as for efficiency - well you must be really a nut when amassing 70+ divisions on the polish border and not be efficient when coming for someone unprepared .
that´s my opinion, bolstered by the facts that i´m both an army officer and living in one of the nations who were inside axis some 70 years ago.

@creeping-deth87: no offence intended, I was just wondering why you like the german army and could´t hold back posting.
I always admired the commonwealth troops very much be it canadians or anzacs or gurkhas. all of them volunteers and definitely a fine bunch. and victorious.
that´s my explanation for the post.

Again, I absolutely MUST stress that this army list was not meant to offend anyone.

@Tun_ Tau
No apology was necessary man, this is a sensitive issue and I understand people have some strong feelings about this stuff.

@dante43dd
No offense taken. To answer your questions: I didn't 'hold back posting' because I wasn't really expecting the kind of reaction I got. I imagine a lot of people who play Warhammer are the kind of guys who love reading about WW2, watching WW2 movies, and are in general war junkies themselves. For this reason, I was expecting a pretty lukewarm reaction to the idea of an army list built around blitzkrieg.

As for why I chose the Wehrmacht, it actually has a bit to do with a board game I play with my gaming group. You might have heard of it, it's called Axis & Allies. I pretty much always play as the Axis and have become notorious for it, so extending that to the tabletop seemed like a great idea to me. That and I actually do admire the MILITARY accomplishments of the Wehrmacht in the early years of the war; their reputation of invincibility in 1940-41 wasn't for nothing.

Honestly though, I'm no skinhead, and I'm fully aware of how horrible the Nazi regime was. If I've caused anyone offense, I apologize. That was not my intent.

creeping-deth87 wrote:Again, I absolutely MUST stress that this army list was not meant to offend anyone.

@Tun_ Tau
No apology was necessary man, this is a sensitive issue and I understand people have some strong feelings about this stuff.

@dante43dd
No offense taken. To answer your questions: I didn't 'hold back posting' because I wasn't really expecting the kind of reaction I got. I imagine a lot of people who play Warhammer are the kind of guys who love reading about WW2, watching WW2 movies, and are in general war junkies themselves. For this reason, I was expecting a pretty lukewarm reaction to the idea of an army list built around blitzkrieg.

As for why I chose the Wehrmacht, it actually has a bit to do with a board game I play with my gaming group. You might have heard of it, it's called Axis & Allies. I pretty much always play as the Axis and have become notorious for it, so extending that to the tabletop seemed like a great idea to me. That and I actually do admire the MILITARY accomplishments of the Wehrmacht in the early years of the war; their reputation of invincibility in 1940-41 wasn't for nothing.

Honestly though, I'm no skinhead, and I'm fully aware of how horrible the Nazi regime was. If I've caused anyone offense, I apologize. That was not my intent.

I´m playing axis & allies, too.
so again, my apologies for sort of disrupting your thread.
nice games and may the dice be with you.always .
dante43dd signing off.

Silentway wrote:

As far as the list, it looks solid. WWII had horrible artillery however, much of which was horse drawn. I would try and swap those out for Leman Russ's to act as Panthers or Tigers.

I agree with this. And also @creeping I did think this was an interesting topic, studying ww2 at uni at the moment