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HQ:

Company Command Squad: 165 points
4x plasma, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Troops:

Veteran Squad: 140 points
3x flamers, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 155 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 155 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 170 points
3x plasmas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Fast Attack:

Vendetta: 130 points

Vendetta: 130 points

Vendetta: 130 points

Heavy Support:

Leman Russ Tank: 165 points
Lascannon

Manticore: 160 points

Stormtrooper520 wrote:HQ:

Company Command Squad: 165 points
4x plasma, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Troops:

Veteran Squad: 150 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 150 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 170 points
3x plasmas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Fast Attack:
( If the heavy support doesn't work out, ill add another Vendetta.)
Vendetta: 130 points

Vendetta: 130 points

Heavy Support:
(Im a little "ify" about Heavy Support, I just have these models and they have proved well in games against space marines, grey knights, imperial guard, tyranids, blood angels, but don't know about orks, dark eldar, witch hunters, templars, necrons, or Tau. )

Leman Russ Demolisher: 180 points
Lascannon

Leman Russ Demolisher: 180 points
Lascannon

Leman Russ Executioner: 245 points
Lascannon, plasma sponsons

im not sure what to make of this list... i keep wondering how this army would stand up against a swarm or orks or tyranids... (not good 12 plasma/meltagun shots a turn, bs 3 hit about 6 a turn. doesnt mean much when they have 200 orks on the field.)

against grey knights or space marines this army has potential to work pretty well with lots of plasma and meltas however, your vets are going to disembark shoot the hell out of a squad of terminators/marines your going to hit 1.5 of your melta guns then ur going to hit about 3 lasguns and wound 0.7 of them... then they get their saves etc... so your only going to kill 1-2 at most per squad...

then it is their turn and goodbye veterans. 1 phycannon and 4-8 storm bolter shots no saves for you..

and this is only if your lucky enough to shoot them first and they dont wreck your transports before you get close enough.

ive always thought of imperial guard as a defensive army. i am currently building my own guard army at the moment. i am also building 1500 points and i have a drastically different list to you, im not sure how competitive you intend to be playing this army but a gaurd army with 50 troops at 1500 points seems pretty weak to me considering most games you play arnt going to be ahnialation they will be all about capturing points and you cant do that without your 40 vets still been alive.

i would look into taking something like:

Platoon Command Squad
-plasmas meltas whatever you want

2 X infantry squad with missile launcher (5 points i think)?

2 X Heavy weapons squad with either lascannons or missile launchers or a split

GET THREE OF THESE as your core and these missile launchers will do some serious hurt to orks or nids and even the krak and lascannons will but also to space marines...

then look at some sentinels with plasma cannons ( the coolest thing i have ever done was a squad of 3 sentinels with plasma cannons) they are just amazing for anything.

some ogryns are nice if you have the models for them but at 35 dollars a model they are pretty darn expensive...

oh and also get the general that can issue 4 commands a turn and give your troops some vox casters. ( take ur troops as combined squads so make a 25 man squad from the PCC and 2 infantry squads: you only need 1 vox caster then)


take a commisar in the PCC

basalik or leman russ.. whatever points you got left

spaceXjam wrote:

Stormtrooper520 wrote:HQ:

Company Command Squad: 165 points
4x plasma, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Troops:

Veteran Squad: 150 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 150 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 170 points
3x plasmas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Fast Attack:
( If the heavy support doesn't work out, ill add another Vendetta.)
Vendetta: 130 points

Vendetta: 130 points

Heavy Support:
(Im a little "ify" about Heavy Support, I just have these models and they have proved well in games against space marines, grey knights, imperial guard, tyranids, blood angels, but don't know about orks, dark eldar, witch hunters, templars, necrons, or Tau. )

Leman Russ Demolisher: 180 points
Lascannon

Leman Russ Demolisher: 180 points
Lascannon

Leman Russ Executioner: 245 points
Lascannon, plasma sponsons

im not sure what to make of this list... i keep wondering how this army would stand up against a swarm or orks or tyranids... (not good 12 plasma/meltagun shots a turn, bs 3 hit about 6 a turn. doesnt mean much when they have 200 orks on the field.)

against grey knights or space marines this army has potential to work pretty well with lots of plasma and meltas however, your vets are going to disembark shoot the hell out of a squad of terminators/marines your going to hit 1.5 of your melta guns then ur going to hit about 3 lasguns and wound 0.7 of them... then they get their saves etc... so your only going to kill 1-2 at most per squad...

then it is their turn and goodbye veterans. 1 phycannon and 4-8 storm bolter shots no saves for you..

and this is only if your lucky enough to shoot them first and they dont wreck your transports before you get close enough.

ive always thought of imperial guard as a defensive army. i am currently building my own guard army at the moment. i am also building 1500 points and i have a drastically different list to you, im not sure how competitive you intend to be playing this army but a gaurd army with 50 troops at 1500 points seems pretty weak to me considering most games you play arnt going to be ahnialation they will be all about capturing points and you cant do that without your 40 vets still been alive.

i would look into taking something like:

Platoon Command Squad
-plasmas meltas whatever you want

2 X infantry squad with missile launcher (5 points i think)?

2 X Heavy weapons squad with either lascannons or missile launchers or a split

GET THREE OF THESE as your core and these missile launchers will do some serious hurt to orks or nids and even the krak and lascannons will but also to space marines...

then look at some sentinels with plasma cannons ( the coolest thing i have ever done was a squad of 3 sentinels with plasma cannons) they are just amazing for anything.

some ogryns are nice if you have the models for them but at 35 dollars a model they are pretty darn expensive...

oh and also get the general that can issue 4 commands a turn and give your troops some vox casters. ( take ur troops as combined squads so make a 25 man squad from the PCC and 2 infantry squads: you only need 1 vox caster then)


take a commisar in the PCC

basalik or leman russ.. whatever points you got left

Veterans have bs 4 just so you know. But yeah I might have enough infantry for a platoon I'll check my box o guardsmen

Also, you don't have to disembark to fire. You just fire from the Chimera.

I think this list is solid, your only problem is lack of long ranged firepower, but you do have your vendettas.

The only disadvantage I see is only 3 capturing units. I'd say adding atleast one more would help. Maybe drop one vendetta and add a squad to the remaining one. Say vets, x3 melta and demolitions. Works wonders coming out of a vendetta or valkyrie.

Now as space said, a Platoon helps, but your a mech list and that would only slow you down.
If your going against a horde, stay back and give yourself a turn or two of good firing before you do anything. Thats your only real problem with your demolisher, it's so limited on range. I'd suggest standard russ' with the hull lascannon if your facing a horde.

TheLordOfSins wrote:Also, you don't have to disembark to fire. You just fire from the Chimera.

I think this list is solid, your only problem is lack of long ranged firepower, but you do have your vendettas.

The only disadvantage I see is only 3 capturing units. I'd say adding atleast one more would help. Maybe drop one vendetta and add a squad to the remaining one. Say vets, x3 melta and demolitions. Works wonders coming out of a vendetta or valkyrie.

Now as space said, a Platoon helps, but your a mech list and that would only slow you down.
If your going against a horde, stay back and give yourself a turn or two of good firing before you do anything. Thats your only real problem with your demolisher, it's so limited on range. I'd suggest standard russ' with the hull lascannon if your facing a horde.

I like your idea best. Lucky I have 2 vanilla russes with hull lascannons, ill drop what you told me. Thanks for the input man


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, do you think I should drop the executioner for a, veteran squad and a stormtrooper squad of 5 DSing with 2 meltas? For extra anti-tank?

Nah, that executioner with plasma sponsons is outstanding against, well, anything except AV14. lol That's a beast of a tank and great against hordes and meq.

Alright sounds good, editting the list right now!

vets w 3 x melta in chimera are 155pts though.

Otherwise good list.
I would drop the lascannon hulls on the russes though and just go with heavy flamers there

LordofMuck wrote:vets w 3 x melta in chimera are 155pts though.

Otherwise good list.
I would drop the lascannon hulls on the russes though and just go with heavy flamers there

Oh your right! ok ill drop it.

spaceXjam wrote:
im not sure what to make of this list... i keep wondering how this army would stand up against a swarm or orks or tyranids... (not good 12 plasma/meltagun shots a turn, bs 3 hit about 6 a turn. doesnt mean much when they have 200 orks on the field.)

Did you miss all the Heavy Flamers? I doubt he'd have much trouble with swarms - tank shock + templates is a good combo. Not to mention that most 'swarm' units can't really hurt a moving vehicle with any sort of consistency.

spaceXjam wrote: against grey knights or space marines this army has potential to work pretty well with lots of plasma and meltas however, your vets are going to disembark shoot the hell out of a squad of terminators/marines your going to hit 1.5 of your melta guns then ur going to hit about 3 lasguns and wound 0.7 of them... then they get their saves etc... so your only going to kill 1-2 at most per squad...

Firstly - why are you disembarking? There is absolutely no need unless the transport is stunned/shaken. Secondly, Veterans are BS4 so your maths is wrong.

spaceXjam wrote:then it is their turn and goodbye veterans. 1 phycannon and 4-8 storm bolter shots no saves for you..

and this is only if your lucky enough to shoot them first and they dont wreck your transports before you get close enough.

This is where target priority becomes important - take out the enemy assets capable of hurting you the most. If you can wreck the enemy transports in their half of the table, those tanks in Heavy Support become a lot more scary for your opponent. Likewise, keeping your own transports safe, i.e. with cover or out of LoS and you won't be forced out.

spaceXjam wrote:ive always thought of imperial guard as a defensive army. i am currently building my own guard army at the moment. i am also building 1500 points and i have a drastically different list to you, im not sure how competitive you intend to be playing this army but a gaurd army with 50 troops at 1500 points seems pretty weak to me considering most games you play arnt going to be ahnialation they will be all about capturing points and you cant do that without your 40 vets still been alive.

That's a very 4th edition way of thinking. Imperial Guard can now be as aggressive as you like, and can build lists to taste. Being static will often lose games by not giving yourself enough time to get to objectives.

Also, those 40 Vets have the rather large advantages of being inside mobile transports, so enemy anti-infantry fire goes to waste until they are forced out, and they can get where they need to consistently quicker than all-foot armies.

spaceXjam wrote:
completely different list

Fair enough, but really not giving advice on his list, just telling him to get a new one that can hurt Nids and Orks... which Guard really don't struggle with anyway, nor are you likely to see that many of in a competitive environment, which is what you have to assume Stormtrooper520 is after.

Anyway:

Stormtrooper520 wrote:
HQ:

Company Command Squad: 165 points
4x plasma, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Troops:

Veteran Squad: 150 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 150 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 150 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 170 points
3x plasmas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Fast Attack:

Vendetta: 130 points

Heavy Support:

Leman Russ Tank: 165 points
Lascannon

Leman Russ Tank: 165 points
Lascannon

Leman Russ Executioner: 245 points
Lascannon, plasma sponsons

I make that 1505 pts (Vets are 155 for melta) so you'll need to change it.

I think your lone Vendetta will get shot down (or at least, shot AT) first in almost every game, so don't forget to turbo-boost scout move to get your cover save T1.
I'm also not convinced your Executioner is worth it, what with having all those BS4 plasma guns around.
I would be tempted to play about with your Heavy Support options a bit... maybe Demolishers instead of the Battle Tanks as they nicely double up against TEQ/MEQ and need to be in closer with your Vets, to work properly.

Also, you could use more long range AT. If you drop the Exec you can almost afford two more Vendetta's... I think the points will fit if you have 1x Battle Tank w/HF 1x Demolisher w/HF and swap one Vet squad out for 2x melta 1x flamer.

You have a good core list with the CCS/Vets, if slightly predictable. I wouldn't change them about, just make sure you have the tools to handle any list thrown at you.

evilbishop wrote:

spaceXjam wrote:
im not sure what to make of this list... i keep wondering how this army would stand up against a swarm or orks or tyranids... (not good 12 plasma/meltagun shots a turn, bs 3 hit about 6 a turn. doesnt mean much when they have 200 orks on the field.)

Did you miss all the Heavy Flamers? I doubt he'd have much trouble with swarms - tank shock + templates is a good combo. Not to mention that most 'swarm' units can't really hurt a moving vehicle with any sort of consistency.

spaceXjam wrote: against grey knights or space marines this army has potential to work pretty well with lots of plasma and meltas however, your vets are going to disembark shoot the hell out of a squad of terminators/marines your going to hit 1.5 of your melta guns then ur going to hit about 3 lasguns and wound 0.7 of them... then they get their saves etc... so your only going to kill 1-2 at most per squad...

Firstly - why are you disembarking? There is absolutely no need unless the transport is stunned/shaken. Secondly, Veterans are BS4 so your maths is wrong.

spaceXjam wrote:then it is their turn and goodbye veterans. 1 phycannon and 4-8 storm bolter shots no saves for you..

and this is only if your lucky enough to shoot them first and they dont wreck your transports before you get close enough.

This is where target priority becomes important - take out the enemy assets capable of hurting you the most. If you can wreck the enemy transports in their half of the table, those tanks in Heavy Support become a lot more scary for your opponent. Likewise, keeping your own transports safe, i.e. with cover or out of LoS and you won't be forced out.

spaceXjam wrote:ive always thought of imperial guard as a defensive army. i am currently building my own guard army at the moment. i am also building 1500 points and i have a drastically different list to you, im not sure how competitive you intend to be playing this army but a gaurd army with 50 troops at 1500 points seems pretty weak to me considering most games you play arnt going to be ahnialation they will be all about capturing points and you cant do that without your 40 vets still been alive.

That's a very 4th edition way of thinking. Imperial Guard can now be as aggressive as you like, and can build lists to taste. Being static will often lose games by not giving yourself enough time to get to objectives.

Also, those 40 Vets have the rather large advantages of being inside mobile transports, so enemy anti-infantry fire goes to waste until they are forced out, and they can get where they need to consistently quicker than all-foot armies.

spaceXjam wrote:
completely different list

Fair enough, but really not giving advice on his list, just telling him to get a new one that can hurt Nids and Orks... which Guard really don't struggle with anyway, nor are you likely to see that many of in a competitive environment, which is what you have to assume Stormtrooper520 is after.

Anyway:

Stormtrooper520 wrote:
HQ:

Company Command Squad: 165 points
4x plasma, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Troops:

Veteran Squad: 150 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 150 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 150 points
3x meltas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Veteran Squad: 170 points
3x plasmas, Chimera: Hull mounted heavy flamer

Fast Attack:

Vendetta: 130 points

Heavy Support:

Leman Russ Tank: 165 points
Lascannon

Leman Russ Tank: 165 points
Lascannon

Leman Russ Executioner: 245 points
Lascannon, plasma sponsons

I make that 1505 pts (Vets are 155 for melta) so you'll need to change it.

I think your lone Vendetta will get shot down (or at least, shot AT) first in almost every game, so don't forget to turbo-boost scout move to get your cover save T1.
I'm also not convinced your Executioner is worth it, what with having all those BS4 plasma guns around.
I would be tempted to play about with your Heavy Support options a bit... maybe Demolishers instead of the Battle Tanks as they nicely double up against TEQ/MEQ and need to be in closer with your Vets, to work properly.

Also, you could use more long range AT. If you drop the Exec you can almost afford two more Vendetta's... I think the points will fit if you have 1x Battle Tank w/HF 1x Demolisher w/HF and swap one Vet squad out for 2x melta 1x flamer.

You have a good core list with the CCS/Vets, if slightly predictable. I wouldn't change them about, just make sure you have the tools to handle any list thrown at you.

I'll play test a few armies with the executioner and the vendettas, see what I like.

You will need at least one squad with multiple flamers to deal with hordes. Subsequently firing flamers perform far worse against hordes than a squad with multiple flamers does. The opponent will remove casualties out of the shooting area of the other flamers And if you have a 10 man squad the first one will maybe get 5, the next one 3, the next one 1 and so on. Multiple flamers will get 3x5.

I would exchange the weaponry of one melta vet squad with 3 flamers and shotguns (alternatively demolitions too to deal with TEQ and vehicles). Screw the comments with wasted BS4. You have the alternative of taking a PCS with 4 Flamers in a chimera but that leads to 2 infantry squads. So you end up with more points invested. But what you need is one squad with flamers.

For heavy support I would suggest a Manticore instead of one of the Russes, but thats your decision, you get more potential against vehicles but you keep terms at 2+ save and not at 4+ (which could be obsolete, when you hit them twice...) and you are lesser armoured.

A regimental standard is also almost mandatory in a mech list. Otherwise your guys will fall back too quickly.

-Nazdreg- wrote:
I would exchange the weaponry of one melta vet squad with 3 flamers and shotguns (alternatively demolitions too to deal with TEQ and vehicles). Screw the comments with wasted BS4. You have the alternative of taking a PCS with 4 Flamers in a chimera but that leads to 2 infantry squads. So you end up with more points invested. But what you need is one squad with flamers.

This is a very valid loadout - I run 3x Flamer, Demo Vets regularly and they can do a lot of damage, but depends very much on good placement and timing (and a decent scatter on the demo charge).

-Nazdreg- wrote:For heavy support I would suggest a Manticore instead of one of the Russes, but thats your decision, you get more potential against vehicles but you keep terms at 2+ save and not at 4+ (which could be obsolete, when you hit them twice...) and you are lesser armoured.

Also a good choice - you lose out on durability and being able to put the AV14 tank infront of the AV12 Chimeras for cover, but gain non-LoS shooting and multiple S10 blasts.

-Nazdreg- wrote:A regimental standard is also almost mandatory in a mech list. Otherwise your guys will fall back too quickly.

I don't agree with this at all as being mandatory - if your CCS is still alive and within 12" of a broken squad, you can order them back in the fight. You also waste a special weapon slot for the banner (IIRC).

-Nazdreg- wrote:You will need at least one squad with multiple flamers to deal with hordes. Subsequently firing flamers perform far worse against hordes than a squad with multiple flamers does. The opponent will remove casualties out of the shooting area of the other flamers And if you have a 10 man squad the first one will maybe get 5, the next one 3, the next one 1 and so on. Multiple flamers will get 3x5.

I would exchange the weaponry of one melta vet squad with 3 flamers and shotguns (alternatively demolitions too to deal with TEQ and vehicles). Screw the comments with wasted BS4. You have the alternative of taking a PCS with 4 Flamers in a chimera but that leads to 2 infantry squads. So you end up with more points invested. But what you need is one squad with flamers.

For heavy support I would suggest a Manticore instead of one of the Russes, but thats your decision, you get more potential against vehicles but you keep terms at 2+ save and not at 4+ (which could be obsolete, when you hit them twice...) and you are lesser armoured.

A regimental standard is also almost mandatory in a mech list. Otherwise your guys will fall back too quickly.

I'll play test it with these changes, I lucky own 1 manticore so ill try it out with this list


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I added more fast attack because the heavy support is too mixed

This is very similiar list to what I use, and it works pretty well for me. I would keep the demolisher though, I often find there is always something within 24 inches so there is always something to shoot at with it.

I dont know if i agree about the standard part though, while necessary with platoons, I find my guys are usually too spread out for it to be super effective with mech, and your CCS should be in a chimera, so I dont think it works then, but i may be wrong

A standard works out of a chimera.

It is just so useful if your chimeras get blown up and the guys are not pinned. Unpinning them is an order you dont want to issue because you want to improve their firepower rather than making them fire at all because you didnt bring a standard.

And of course against unnecessary failed morale checks. Same procedure. A squad will retreat 2x so about 14" on average before you are able to call them back. And if you do, you waste an order you can use to have them firing and on the spot where they had to make a ld check.

In a foot list a standard isnt so necessary. Commissars will do the job there.

And tbh: Is a 4th melta in a 3 melta squad so important?

-Nazdreg- wrote:A standard works out of a chimera.

It is just so useful if your chimeras get blown up and the guys are not pinned. Unpinning them is an order you dont want to issue because you want to improve their firepower rather than making them fire at all because you didnt bring a standard.

And of course against unnecessary failed morale checks. Same procedure. A squad will retreat 2x so about 14" on average before you are able to call them back. And if you do, you waste an order you can use to have them firing and on the spot where they had to make a ld check.

In a foot list a standard isnt so necessary. Commissars will do the job there.

And tbh: Is a 4th melta in a 3 melta squad so important?

A flag lets you retake leadership without your comissars killing off your guys, and I can never seem to give that many orders with my CCS when I play mech because most of my guys are in chimera's and cant recieve orders, but can be used more effectively later on.

A flag lets you retake leadership without your comissars killing off your guys, and I can never seem to give that many orders with my CCS when I play mech because most of my guys are in chimera's and cant recieve orders, but can be used more effectively later on.

1. a squad in a chimera doesnt need morale checks normally We are talking about the situation when they have to act outside of their safe transport, which does happen many times.
2. Unfortunately if I have a commissar and a standard available, the commissar does not voluntarily execute, but he does execute one of the sergeants regardless of a standard. You dont have the choice not to reroll btw. as you have with the standard.

-Nazdreg- wrote:

A flag lets you retake leadership without your comissars killing off your guys, and I can never seem to give that many orders with my CCS when I play mech because most of my guys are in chimera's and cant recieve orders, but can be used more effectively later on.

1. a squad in a chimera doesnt need morale checks normally We are talking about the situation when they have to act outside of their safe transport, which does happen many times.
2. Unfortunately if I have a commissar and a standard available, the commissar does not voluntarily execute, but he does execute one of the sergeants regardless of a standard. You dont have the choice not to reroll btw. as you have with the standard.

on 1, while the standard is nice in those situations, generally, once my squad is out of its chimera, it is in some trouble or going on a suicide mission, but it could be used more effectively if the chimera explodes and kills over 25%, but the CCS is often out of their range.

on 2, I have not thought of that before, I was told by a player at my FLGS who has played guard for a long time that you could choose, but I think you may be right upon reflection, I will have to discuss this with the FLGS owner next time i am there.

I will check the wording of the rules when I get home from work!!!