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Was reading a A Feast of Crows and there are a few minor bits in that might hint at the smallfolk having growing Targarian sympathies; even if they simply hate the Lannisters.

*Cersei hears about a popular puppet show where the houses are represented by stuffed animals. The proud Stags are devoured by the Lions and they are then consumed by a Dragon which hatchs from an egg. Cersei then orders punishments, eye gouging and executions in response to anyone caught watching these shows.


*Brienne runs into that Crabb person, who remarks that most of the men in these parts are loyal Dragonmen and despise Roberts ilk. (not sure if this is just because she was near Dragonstone which would make sense)


*At the beginning that monk (jokingly I know), toasts the Queen Across the Sea and calls her the true Queen. Which suggests a sentiment where most of them know that Danny is the legitimate heir .


So do you think that might happen? The smallfolk actually do end up rising with dragon banners? I think they would lose though. If you look at how such risings were punished then it could be similar to what Danny saw happen on the Road to Mereen (anyone who saw The Tudors and the rebellion in that knows what I'am talking about). That'd probably strike a nerve with Danny wouldn't it? People dying for her sake and doing something she never imagined they'd do. Between Dondarrion, the Sparrows and all those bands of armed peasants who've sprang up during the war from displaced persons theres quite a large body of armed smallfolk who could rise. Also, from a superstitious point of view, its easy to see how people might assume that all the misery they've suffered with tyranical drunken kings is the Gods punishment for usurping the True Line and murdering the Targarian children. Plus you have other things adding to that perception, like the Freys at the Red Wedding, so many different claiments in the War of Five Kings, Joffreys madness, Cersei's madness and countless other incidents that amount to a blight upon the people. If you start hearing rumours about some Queen with Dragons across the water, it'd be difficult not to see the appeal of that; at the very least they would think it would end the strife. Because in the minds of most people theres a precedent for Dragons=Win. Plus, Danny herself talked it down during one of her low points as just another lie her brother told her as part of his delusions; which to my mind only makes it more likely to happen.


Oh, yeah and the hand that dared kill a Targarian King got chopped off. The Mountain died in poisoned agony. Tywin Lannister dropped gold. Ned Stark, John Arryn and Rob Barratheon dead. So the ones who betrayed the Targs are meeting quite grisly ends. Divine Wrath some might say?

Most of the small folk will follow their Liege lords and their Bannermen,

certainly the Connoways may join the Targaryen Cause and many of the southern houses will.

generally it will split Westeroes into 2 distinct group. As you may have noticed the peasants don't have too much say

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Most of the small folk will follow their Liege lords and their Bannermen,

certainly the Connoways may join the Targaryen Cause and many of the southern houses will.

generally it will split Westeroes into 2 distinct group. As you may have noticed the peasants don't have too much say

Well, thats not quite true. They can always fall in among the Church and have actively been defying their masters by supporting/harbouring Dondarions cause; even to the point of adopting the Fire God. Plus there are plenty of peasants who have been displaced or had their lords killed and are now 'masterless men'. Plus there is a historical precedence for peasants betraying their lords, especially if the local priesthood is stoking up the flames as it were. A peasants revolt or, I can't remember what that rebellion Henry the Eighth had was called, the Pilgrims revolt or something like that. Something like that wouldn't surprise me. Especially is Sam tells the citadel about Danny.


On that point. How do the Seven and the Fire God have the same prophecy? I only caught the end of Sams story when Aemon dies but he seemed to think Melisandre had gotten it wrong and that the real (Azzor Hai? ) is Danny. Since Aemons a maester and the appeal is to the Grand Maesters I'am assuming that means they had a similar prophecy involving the Seven. How does that work exactly? I mean at the minute the Rhollor worshippers are considered satanic by the Seven and vice versa. Irony....


Plus, if your kindly Riverlord has been murdered and you are told that his murderer is now your lord. That at best produces apathy and at worst discontent.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Plus, if your kindly Riverlord has been murdered and you are told that his murderer is now your lord. That at best produces apathy and at worst discontent.

these are generally small folk who have rarely seen the liege lord never mind up close or spoke to them. It's more about sigils and names.
Most people without a lord would be very hard to organise into a fighting force capadle of taking the Iron throne. Dondarion runs guerilla tactics which only require a few people to hide them, and they only accept R'Hollor after seeing his power first hand from Thoros of Myr after his epiphany of faith.

And most the religious fanatics in Westeroes are currently outside the Grand Baelors Sept in Kings Landing.

And Azor Ahai was assumed to be Stannis by Melisandre, other Red Priests assume it is Dany after hearing the stories of her dragons and now Melisandre only sees John when she looks for her visions of Azor Ahai.

The prophecy is :

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.

The seven have no part in this prophecy

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:[The prophecy is :

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.

The seven have no part in this prophecy

But Aemon is a maester and wanted Sam to go to Oldtown to tell the Citadel about Danny being the fulfillment of this prophecy. Plus didn't soom of the Targarians think Aeyrs and Raegar were the one; yet the Targs (oddly) never converted to worshipping the fire god.


Um, I don't know. I read this online seemed pretty concrete

Daenerys Targaryen

Far and away the most likely candidate for Azor Ahai, Dany fits all the requirements. She awoke the dragons out of her petrified stone eggs, on the very night she spotted the comet for the first time. (GoT, pg. 804). That night, there was smoke from the funeral pyre and salt from Dany’s tears. And she was ‘reborn’ in the sense that she emerged from the fire a stronger person--a leader whom the Dothraki would follow.

But how does Dany’s story match up with Salladhor’s? Well, one suggestion has been that her dragons are actually Lightbringer, because they can produce fire. This makes a great amount of sense. Like Azor Ahai, Dany tried three times to make her weapon--once while putting them on a brazier (GoT, pg. 593), once while coming out of her fevered nightmares (GoT, pg. 753-754), and finally succeeding on the third try at Drogo’s pyre. Also, like Azor Ahai, Dany sacrificed her spouse to make her weapon, and drew the weapon out of a fire.

Other people merely think that Lightbringer is still a sword, and perhaps Dany will find it elsewhere, maybne in Asshai or far east.

But the fact remains that, of all the candidates, Dany is the only one who has woken dragons out of stone. Unless another character is going to accomplish the same thing, Dany seems like a safe bet to be Azor Ahai reborn.



However: That guy hinted that 'The Prince who was promised' and Azzor Hai reborn are NOT the same person as Melisandre believes. That fits quite well with Jon being Targarian. Also, I suppose if 'The Dragon has three heads' it could be argued that three rebirths of Azzor Hai have to happen. Waking a Dragon from stone could simply be a metaphor in the context of Jon Snow for bringing him (a Targarian and therefore a Dragon) back to life. We then have Aegon who could be the third Dragon; potentially her two nephews.

I believe that bit was written at the end of aSoS and didn't have the evidence to consider Jon Snow,

He will be reborn in an ice cell (Bran's vision)
when he was killed it was with salt and smoke and one of the knights sigil's was a red comet.
When Melisandre looks into her flames for Azor Ahai ie looking for Stannis (and remeber the flames don't lie) all she can see is Jon Snow.
Stannis is MIA and Jon is in the right place to fight the white walkers like Azor Ahai is supposed to.

Dany was set as the obviously obvious choice to be Azor Ahai by GRR Martin but nothing is a crystal clear as it seems.
If it was the stories wouldn't be nearly as interesting.

So, how would waking stone dragons be part of the tale? Perhaps some magic defences on the wall that he can use against the Others? The stone dragon being the wall itself? Plus I quite like the idea of there being three dragons, so three Azzor Hai doesn't seem unreasonable.


Actually, I just thought, Jon also sacrificed his spouse when he killed Ygritte by betraying her; by the ways of the wildlings they were man and wife after all.


On topic

I just finished Feast of Crows and they seemed to be implying that the smallfolk would simmer with resentment over Margerys imprisonment. So I guess the mob has its favourites.


Also, I know that they only followed Dondarion and took the fire God when his powers were demonstrated. However, I'am pretty sure 3 Dragons and somebody who could pass as Azzor Hai is in a similar league of WTF awesomeness.



BTW just a minor unrelated point. A lot of characters keep mentioning their husbands 'getting horns' because they are cuckold by their wives. How does that work? That phrase is based on a real-life classical reference to what the Goddess Dianna did to Prince Acteon when he saw her naked and was turned into a stag; then killed by her hounds. So if a husband was being cheated on or dominated by his wife, in much Western art of the Early Modern Period he would be depicted with a pair of antler horns. Learned about it during my 18th cen British History course at uni. Was quite funny because the lower ranks had a popular ritual called 'rough music'. If it was found that a husband was being cheated on, then a mob of men would sieze the man, stick horns on him, then mount him on a donkey facing backwards, they would then ride him down the streets chanting ribald music and banging pots and pans as they danced around him. This served for entertainment 300 years ago and was a means of enforcing social norms since it was believed a husband should always control his wife and weakness needed to be mocked in public by the community.

The three dragons refers to Dany and her nephews Aegon (Young Griff) and Jon Snow.

And the smallfolk will follow some one that shows true power, hence Dondarion's followers and the queen's men.
But for the most part these shows of magical strength are rare.