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I've heard many different opinions on who the old one are/were some people say they created the orks to kill the ctan and necron menace but lost control of them, or devolved into snotlings, or were the brainboyz that supposedly created the orks.

I was just wondering is there any actually concrete evidence anywhere to show who they are?

The Necron Codex has a bit of information on them, but it boils down to "legendary beings that may have had a hand in the creation of all life in the galaxy as we know it". They're all dead, though.

I haven't read anything solid on exactly what they are specifically, and I think they are intentionally keeping that information vague. But from the fluff I have heard, they are pretty much responsible for most, if not all life, in the galaxy till the Necrons decided to wage war against them. The fluff I heard specifically is that the Eldar were created to help fight against the Necrons and the C'tan, but I can't remember exactly where I saw that. I think the two codexs that mention them the most are Eldar and Necrons.

If I remember correctly. We debated an hour about this, But I think it is hinted that it might be the lizardmen. But now with the new fluff, we have no idea. but they could be gods.

No one knows. Even the Eldar only have legends. The Necrons probably know, but AFAIK, the Old Ones were wiped out as a result of the war with the Necrons and the Enslaver Plague.

Boss Gutrippa wrote:I've heard many different opinions on who the old one are/were some people say they created the orks to kill the ctan and necron menace but lost control of them, or devolved into snotlings, or were the brainboyz that supposedly created the orks.

I was just wondering is there any actually concrete evidence anywhere to show who they are?

The Necron and Eldar codex addressed them in fairly direct terms. They are a precursor race that came before all others, planted the seeds of life or modified life on many worlds, created the webway, and performed other legendary actions. They were masters of both technology and psychic powers, which made them extremely powerful. At some point they defeated the C'Tan and exiled them. In their time the warp was a serene, calm dimension which they used as a shortcut and a safe base of operations.

The Necrons evolved around the same time and started a war with them for reasons of political expediency and jealousy. The Necrons had higher levels of technology, but could not compete with the Old Ones mastery of the warp combined with technology. This was was called the war in heaven and seems to have lasted between thousands and millions of years. The C'Tan eventually approached the Necrons and "tricked" (depending on who you believe) them into becoming their troops. The C'Tan gorged on Necron souls/life energy (again, depending on the source) and because insanely powerful, able to detonate stars and hurl black holes on a whim. This is when the War in Heaven really escalated and the Old Ones began creating/recruiting battle races to help with their war with the Necrons. This is when the Orks/Eldar were created/modified and sent to battle.

However, the new powerful and violent races had an unintended side effect. Their powerful, uncontrolled emotions stirred up the warp, driving the previously peaceful inhabitants insane, as well as generating new, dangerous races (like daemons). This resulted in the Enslaver plague, when the new, predatory enslavers began assaulting the materium.

Between the Enslaver plague and the new alliance of the C'Tan and the Necron the Old Ones had no where left to hide. They were hunted down in the warp, the webway, and the materium, and soon disappeared from the galactic stage.

Asherian Command wrote:If I remember correctly. We debated an hour about this, But I think it is hinted that it might be the lizardmen. But now with the new fluff, we have no idea. but they could be gods.

In fantasy the Lizardmen were created as the servants of the old ones. I think it is hinted they were the Slaan in fantasy. The lizard men are never mentioned in 40k.

riplikash wrote:

Between the Enslaver plague and the new alliance of the C'Tan and the Necron the Old Ones had no where left to hide. They were hunted down in the warp, the webway, and the materium, and soon disappeared from the galactic stage.

Good, we don't need any more custom-races messing up the galaxy. The Orks are a success, but the Eldar ripped a hole between the realms, created a perverted deity, and may yet ruin the galaxy's only chance at salvation (although I doubt Tzeentch and the Emperor are just going to let them ruin the plan).

riplikash wrote:In fantasy the Lizardmen were created as the servants of the old ones. I think it is hinted they were the Slaan in fantasy. The lizard men are never mentioned in 40k.

Close. In Fantasy, the Slaan were the original servants of the Old Ones.

It used to be sort of the accepted thing that the Slaan in 40K were the old ones. The whole devolving into Snotlings thing I think was suggested at some point during 2nd edition as a joke, possibly just to explain where the Slaan had disappeared to.

Maybe there will be some more evidence on the old ones in 6th edition.


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And thanks for the info.it's gonna give me something to think about


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But it doesn't look like there is actually any solid storyline, but then again that makes it all the more entertainIng

The old Necron Codex said there are still degenerate Old One descendants and that the C'tan considered them particular delicacies. The Codex then went on to say these degenerate Old Ones might be used as bait by the Eldar to lure the Necrons into battle, and to represent such degenerate Old Ones with WHFB Lizardmen. It is essentially a nod and wink towards the Old Ones being Slann, which is what they were originally outright said to be originally when the background for the Eldar was first written.

insaniak wrote:The whole devolving into Snotlings thing I think was suggested at some point during 2nd edition as a joke, possibly just to explain where the Slaan had disappeared to.

Actually, it was that Snotlings were Brain Boyz. They were the smart orkoids that controlled the rest of the green tide. They were never implied to be Old Ones.

DarknessEternal wrote:

insaniak wrote:The whole devolving into Snotlings thing I think was suggested at some point during 2nd edition as a joke, possibly just to explain where the Slaan had disappeared to.

Actually, it was that Snotlings were Brain Boyz. They were the smart orkoids that controlled the rest of the green tide. They were never implied to be Old Ones.

This is mentioned in the Ork codex, and the whole thing about the old ones devolving into the snotlings m not sure where it comes from.

Just a funny idea someone threw out in another thread.

Has eny one ever thought the emporer might be the last of the old ones who tried one last a atemped at reconquring the galaxy by taking charge of one of the most numerious forces in the galaxy before the Necrons were awakend.
This would explain how a human could ever be so powerful
and smart.It would also explain how he had the skill and knowleadge to craete the primarks, after all the Old ones created new species and subspecies all the time.



It is not heresy for me to say it, only for you to belive it!!!

Yeah, that has gone around for a while now. It never gets much traction.

Gaunt met an Old One, and let him take away an inquisitor through the webway as the imperial forces held off a force of chaotic cultists, can't remember how Abnett described him though

DA SPEED FREEK wrote:Has eny one ever thought the emporer might be the last of the old ones who tried one last a atemped at reconquring the galaxy by taking charge of one of the most numerious forces in the galaxy before the Necrons were awakend.
This would explain how a human could ever be so powerful
and smart.It would also explain how he had the skill and knowleadge to craete the primarks, after all the Old ones created new species and subspecies all the time.



It is not heresy for me to say it, only for you to belive it!!!

Yeah, people have mused in that direction several times. But it has no fluff support, several pieces that directly contradict it, not a lot of potential from a 'world design' point of view. It's obvious from an out of universe perspective it isn't going to happen, so it is usually mentioned, then forgotten. Just as it will be this time.

DA SPEED FREEK wrote:Has eny one ever thought the emporer might be the last of the old ones

The Emperor already has an objective origin story. This is not it.

Well the tablet from Xenology shows the Old Ones/ Ancient Ones as strange robed, spikey headed, multi-eyed things.

And it looks like they're "singing" or "speaking" things into creation.

The upper left hand corner of the tablet shows a human embryo in a star (star child? Emperor?).

So I don't think the Emperor would be an Old One mostly because he is a human and humans weren't around in the days of the War in Heaven.

riplikash wrote:


At some point they defeated the C'Tan and exiled them.

No proof of this. What the Deceiver said could have easily been a lie to sway the Necrontyr to "ally: with them.

King Pariah wrote:

riplikash wrote:


At some point they defeated the C'Tan and exiled them.

No proof of this. What the Deceiver said could have easily been a lie to sway the Necrontyr to "ally: with them.

Well certainly, but since that is our only source on the subject, and derived from the most current codex, that is what I'm going to go with. If we are just going to throw out everything we have on the Old Ones that has an unreliable narrator, we might as well throw out everything we know about them. It's all legends.

As it is, it is presented as the most reputable story available.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Gaunt met an Old One, and let him take away an inquisitor through the webway as the imperial forces held off a force of chaotic cultists, can't remember how Abnett described him though

Nah, that was just an old Eldar. "Old One" being an honorific title. It actually wasn't a proper Old One.

riplikash wrote:

King Pariah wrote:

riplikash wrote:


At some point they defeated the C'Tan and exiled them.

No proof of this. What the Deceiver said could have easily been a lie to sway the Necrontyr to "ally: with them.

Well certainly, but since that is our only source on the subject, and derived from the most current codex, that is what I'm going to go with. If we are just going to throw out everything we have on the Old Ones that has an unreliable narrator, we might as well throw out everything we know about them. It's all legends.

As it is, it is presented as the most reputable story available.

The Codex even says it may have been a blatant lie.

King Pariah wrote:

riplikash wrote:

King Pariah wrote:

riplikash wrote:


At some point they defeated the C'Tan and exiled them.

No proof of this. What the Deceiver said could have easily been a lie to sway the Necrontyr to "ally: with them.

Well certainly, but since that is our only source on the subject, and derived from the most current codex, that is what I'm going to go with. If we are just going to throw out everything we have on the Old Ones that has an unreliable narrator, we might as well throw out everything we know about them. It's all legends.

As it is, it is presented as the most reputable story available.

The Codex even says it may have been a blatant lie.

Yes, which is what I was getting at in saying it was told by an "unreliable narrator". It's still presented as the most reliable source available.

I'm not really sure what you are wanting. The OP wanted info on the Old Ones, I told him their history as presented by the Eldar and Necron codex, the only sources of information on the subject. Both present the history from unreliable perspectives, but it's all we have.