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I was just reading the new fluff in the new Necron codex, and i have to say im not sure i like the connotations.

As i understood it before there was 4 C'tan left in existence after they ate each other when they finished eating the old ones. and all of them in the're own prediciments blah blah blah. but the new fluff says that the Necrons Destroyed the C'tan, so... does that mean all the old fluff (which i think i prefer) is negated and so on.

In a way.

The new codex isn't saying that they were destroyed, only that they were shattered into the forms of shards, each of which more than a match for a greater daemon. Most of these shards are kept under lock and key by the necrons, to be used when they wish, but dozens, if not hundreds of shards are still out there in the galaxy with their own goals and agendas. In this way, all of the events that were tied to the C'Tan after the War in Heaven are still viable. The only difference is it was a shard of one of the C'Tan instead of the physical god themselves. This allows for more than just 4 C'Tan to be around causing havoc and most importantly, it puts the necrons center-stage in their own codex, something that many people felt was lacking in the old codex.

I see what you mean yeah, don't get me wrong i love the new Necrons, as in the're new agenda and stuff

well, 1 C'tan was destroyed, completely, to no longer return.

The Flayer.

As he died, he bestowed the Flayer Curse on the Necrons, so he would have the last laugh.

As for myself, and I know many others, the new "sharded" C'Tan actually helps justify a lot of their old fluff.

The oldcron 'dex claimed the C'Tan were extremely powerful. The newcron 'dex further expands on that concept, portraying them as destroying star systems and hurtling around black holes with ease. It was always hard to connect these images with the beings getting throat punched by power fists.

Now it's made very clear; the beings being routinely trounced in the fluff are mere shards of the beings described in the War in Heaven.

Personally, I also prefer the "jealous, ancient Lovecraftian evil intrinsically tied to the fabric of the universe, banished by the old ones and jealous for revenge" origins over the "star parasites trippin on soul heroin" origin.

So necrons aren't the C'tans henchboys anymore? Been a while since i took a look at necrons, might be a good time to buy new reading material

Viersche wrote:So necrons aren't the C'tans henchboys anymore? Been a while since i took a look at necrons, might be a good time to buy new reading material

Pretty much. Though there's still plenty of material for describing a rogue shard that took control of the tomb world that attempted to enslave it, if you have any interest in playing old style necrons.

riplikash wrote:The oldcron 'dex claimed the C'Tan were extremely powerful. The newcron 'dex further expands on that concept, portraying them as destroying star systems and hurtling around black holes with ease. It was always hard to connect these images with the beings getting throat punched by power fists.

Destroying star systems and creating black holes was in the old codex.

Now it's made very clear; the beings being routinely trounced in the fluff are mere shards of the beings described in the War in Heaven.

The only characters to have reputedly beaten a C'tan in combat are Khaine and the God Emperor, the first the strongest god of the Eldar pantheon, the second, well yeah. Oh, and in at least the latter case, the Dragon was explicitly noted to be starving on Earth. Oh, and the Nightbringer's energies being released by the necrodermis breach nearly ripped Khaine in half, and the Dragon was beating the Emperor for most of the fight.

Personally, I also prefer the "jealous, ancient Lovecraftian evil intrinsically tied to the fabric of the universe, banished by the old ones and jealous for revenge" origins over the "star parasites trippin on soul heroin" origin.

The first part is based on what the codex implies is a lie concocted by the Deceiver.

Also, the codex contradicts itself. It notes that the C'tan couldn't be truly killed, them being a fundamental fact of reality, then it... Gives us an example of a C'tan being killed completely.

Void__Dragon wrote:Destroying star systems and creating black holes was in the old codex.

The new codex describes the Celestial Orrery, a device capable of causing any star in the galaxy to go supernova. Though it's rarely, if ever been used because of the chain reaction of devastation that tends to follow in its wake.

Also, the codex contradicts itself. It notes that the C'tan couldn't be truly killed, them being a fundamental fact of reality, then it... Gives us an example of a C'tan being killed completely.

To be fair, I think it's less that the C'Tan can't be killed and more that they tend to go out with a bang. The death of Llandu'gor, the Flayer cursed a significant number of the necron. Just imagine how things might have turned out if more C'tan had been permanently destroyed.

jareddm wrote:The new codex describes the Celestial Orrery, a device capable of causing any star in the galaxy to go supernova. Though it's rarely, if ever been used because of the chain reaction of devastation that tends to follow in its wake.

That has nothing to do with the C'tan.

To be fair, I think it's less that the C'Tan can't be killed and more that they tend to go out with a bang. The death of Llandu'gor, the Flayer cursed a significant number of the necron. Just imagine how things might have turned out if more C'tan had been permanently destroyed.

Well no, the codex explicitly notes that, as fundamental forces of the universe, they can't be really destroyed.

Well, going in to a significant part of the Necron population and making them act against their basic programming doesn't sound like being destroyed. Because it couldn't be destroyed, it moved into the Necrons that had shattered it.

New codex does mention star extinguishing and black hole summoning c'tan:

"Planets were razed, suns extinguished and whole systems devoured by black holes called into being by the reality warping powers of the star gods." - pg. 7 3rd sentence into section "The Old Ones Defeated"

As for the flayer's destruction, I prefer to think he was shattered into such tiny fragments that the necrons passed him off as destroyed and though he cannot ever pull himself back together, he can infect and wreak vengeance upon the Necrons, devolving them into gibbering fools with an impossible, unquenchable hunger. Though frankly, I tend to utterly ignore codex fluff and pretend my fluff is the real fluff.

King Pariah wrote:
Though frankly, I tend to utterly ignore codex fluff and pretend my fluff is the real fluff.

You're not the only one.

Destroying star systems and creating black holes was in the old codex.

No it's not, it's in the new codex, page 7.

Sasori wrote:No it's not, it's in the new codex, page 7.

Lol.

Oldcron codex, page 25.

"For reasons that will probably never be known, the C'tan began to battle amongst themselves for sport and spite as they unleashed destructive forces beyond comprehension. Planets were razed, suns extinguished, and whole systems devoured by black holes."

There is also a part in the fluff for the Nightbringer in the oldcron codex about how a measure of its power imbued into a starship allowed the ship to destroy star systems on a whim.

So yes, yes it certainly is. gak, if the quote I posted looks familiar, it's probably because the newcron codex damn near copy and pasted it exactly on the page 7 you referred to.

King Pariah wrote:New codex does mention star extinguishing and black hole summoning c'tan:
As for the flayer's destruction, I prefer to think he was shattered into such tiny fragments that the necrons passed him off as destroyed and though he cannot ever pull himself back together, he can infect and wreak vengeance upon the Necrons, devolving them into gibbering fools with an impossible, unquenchable hunger. Though frankly, I tend to utterly ignore codex fluff and pretend my fluff is the real fluff.

Personally I preferred the old flayers origin with them being normal necron warriors that remained awake while in stasis and as a result went mad being trapped but awake for centuries. However your way of describing the new fluff does make it sound better.

On another note, I was always under the impression that the c`tan were more incorporeal entities living off stars than actual gods. I thought they only became gods when the necrontyr gave them physical bodies for the first time. Not fundamental parts of the universe and more uninfluenced by the physical universe. It could be seen as entities that become tied to their physical living metal bodies and when those were shattered they remained tied to them. On the other hand the one that was destroyed, the flayer, could be seen as being released from the body, but as a result incapable of affecting the material universe anymore.

They were "gods" in the sense that the Necrontyr worshiped them as such. However, as the Codex quotes Szarekh, the Silent King, "They came to us as gods and we, like fools, took them at their word.... I curse their names, and the names of all their malevolent brethren."

It also bears noting that, while some C'Tan shards are known to be indentured to the Necrons, this does not account for the entire pantheon, and none of the surviving information regarding the C'Tan correlates with any other.

I would like to point out that the new Codex says that not all, but most of the C'tan have been fragmented by the Necrons. So, the story of the Void Dragon in Mechanicum still works.

The only other book I can remember that features a C'tan is Nightbringer, which also still works because that could have easily just been a shard of the Nightbringer.

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:I would like to point out that the new Codex says that not all, but most of the C'tan have been fragmented by the Necrons. So, the story of the Void Dragon in Mechanicum still works.

The only other book I can remember that features a C'tan is Nightbringer, which also still works because that could have easily just been a shard of the Nightbringer.

It's confirmed in a white Dwarf, that all the named C'tan have been shattered.

Sasori wrote:

TheCrazyCryptek wrote:I would like to point out that the new Codex says that not all, but most of the C'tan have been fragmented by the Necrons. So, the story of the Void Dragon in Mechanicum still works.

The only other book I can remember that features a C'tan is Nightbringer, which also still works because that could have easily just been a shard of the Nightbringer.

It's confirmed in a white Dwarf, that all the named C'tan have been shattered.

Sasori, you're on a roll correcting me today haha!