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Since I got so much good feedback regarding my western front-list, I thought I'd try the same with a list for the eastern front

Headquarters
HQ fausts.
85

Combat Platoons
Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - fully kitted out.
230

Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - fully kitted out.
230

Weapons Platoon
2 80 mm mortars with 251s.
90

Divisional Support Platoons
Panther A or G
560

3 Sd Kfz 234/2 (Puma)
150

Armoured Rocket Launcher Battery p.170
3 panzerwerfers with extra crew
180

Luftwaffe Heavy Anti-aircraft Gun Platoon Reluctant Trained Allied Platoon p.173
2 88s with extra crew
115

Company Points: 1640

This leaves me with a few options.

Should I go with:

1. 2 stummels?
2. 2 PaK 38s?

3. Air support?
a.) Stuka D
b.) Stuka G
c.) HS 129B
d.) HS 129B3

I think that air support could be fun, but do they hit side or top armour?

I' take Panzer IV H instead of Panthers as Divisional Support, simply because Panzer IV H is the mainstay German tank and You get more tanks into Your list. I also decided to take free PAK 3.7 upgrade on all Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon command halftracks.

Another point is about Your mortar section. With Grey Wolf You can also take the Gepanzerte Heavy Platoon which is Combat Platoon (important!) and You can choose not to take any HMG sections and take only mortars. It is essentially the same, but You can make then combat attachments to other Combat Platoons, which You cannot do if You take them under Weapons Platoon section. But frankly speaking I'd suggest You also take at least one section of HMG in halftracks + mortar section - with Gepanzerte Panzergrenadiers You need as much machineguns as You can get.

I would suggest the HMG's as well.

You could run something similar to this;

HQ: Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Company HQ - 1x CinC SMG, 1x 2iC SMG, 2x Sd Kfz 251/1 (65 pts)
CinC SMG Panzerfaust (10 pts)
2iC SMG Panzerfaust (10 pts)

Combat: Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - 1x Command MG, 1x Sd Kfz 251/1 or 251/10, 6x MG, 3x Sd Kfz 251/1 (220 pts)
1x Replace Command MG with Command Panzerfaust SMG (10 pts)

Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - 1x Command MG, 1x Sd Kfz 251/1 or 251/10, 6x MG, 3x Sd Kfz 251/1 (220 pts)
1x Replace Command MG with Command Panzerfaust SMG (10 pts)

Gepanzerte Heavy Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 4x MG42 HMG, 1x Sd Kfz 251/1, 2x Sd Kfz 251/1 (HMG) (165 pts)
- Mortar Section - 1x Observer Rifle, 1x Kubelwagen, 2x Sd Kfz 251/2C (8cm) halftrrack (85 pts)

Weapons: Panzergrenadier Anti-aircraft Gun Platoon - 1x Command Armoured Sd Kfz 10/5 (2cm) Half-track, 1x Armoured Sd Kfz 10/5 (2cm) Half-track (75 pts)

Support: Panzer Platoon - 1x Command Panzer IVH, 3x Panzer IVH (360 pts)

Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 3x 7.5cm PaK36(r) (125 pts)
Transport - 1x Kfz 15 field Car, 1x 3-ton Truck per gun (5 pts)

Heavy Panzerspah Platoon - 2x Command Sd Kfz 231 (8 rad), 2x Sd Kfz 231 (8 rad) (160 pts)

Armored Rocket Launcher Battery - 1x Command SMG, 1x Kfz 15 field Car, 1x Observer Rifle, 1x kubelwagen, 4x Panzerwerfer 42 (210 pts)
- Additional Crew - 4x Additional Crew (20 pts)


1750 Points, 9 Platoons

Your Heavy platoon would use the 8cm mortars for smoke and gives you the option to combat-attach the HMG's. You have some AA which can come in handy for blistering infantry and soft-skinned vehicles if need be. The Panzer IV's are your heavy-assault unit and do especially well against infantry and can deal with most medium armor of the same class. The AT guns (PaK36r's) are decent and can assist with AT operations or supporting tough, dug-in units. You have plenty of recon with the 8-rads, which are my recon of choice and the Armored Rocket launchers can lay smoke or pin units when necessary.

It's a balanced force and covers all bases for the most part.

I typically just use the heavy platoon for HMG's and get a Armored Mortar platoon instead to fill my light infantry artillery slot, but the point CainTheHunter makes is valid in that the Heavy platoon allows you to combat-attach those units out if need be. My preference is having a separate mortar platoon that can pin and smoke reliably and it seems to work for me, but it's really just a matter of if you want combat efficiency for your points or would you rather have more than one reliable artillery unit...YMMV.

Anyway, i think the above would do well.....

Thanks for the responses!

Regarding panzers over panthers, aren't the a bit too thin? With only one unit of tanks, they'll be the priority target for quite alot of flack each round, can they really sustain that?

And, if I drop both them and the 88s, what should I use against heavy tanks? Won't they just roll over me quite often?

Panthers are not that tough either, btw. If You want tough tanks, take a Tiger

Panthers are good for sniping afar, but they are not exactly Land Raiders from 40K...

Yes, I know, 10 isn't that bulletproof, but the gun is pretty darn good and 10 is that much better than 6, which I think I'll need in this list.

The gun is actually the best thing in Panther...

Yeah, my plan is to use them teamed up with the cheap-as-chips 88s to neautralise any armoured threats.

However, I still can't figure out with type of air support I should use if I choose to use it.

IF you choose to take one, then at least take limited , not sporadic, since with latter there is a slight chance that You won't see your plane at all

Unfortunately, I'm using the Grey Wolf list, so nothing other than limited. :(

Do you know any gepanzerte-list that can have sporadic?

And, which type of plane to use?

Limited is better than sporadic, btw.

In the Heer GPG list from Forces book (Version 3 Bundle) You have a choice between Limited and Sporadic.


With Gepanzerte Grenadiers I'd take Stuka G, with Panzerkompanie Stuka D, because G has better Anti-tank and GPG need more AT than Panzerkompanie.

Most of the time I'd rather invest into AA support and not bother with planes, since GPG are quite expensive points-wise and at least I can always use AA against infantry.

My bad, meant the other way round, only sporadic.
Thanks for the tip!

But then I loose my panzerwerfers unfortunately, well, I can't have everything

Even 3 Panthers will be target priority, but they're your dedicated AT units and they do very well at it.

The Panzer IV's are cheaper and they can fare better in assaults against infantry and do a decent job with AT operations. In the list I posted above, at least it's 4 Panzer IV H's vs 3 Panthers, so the more hulls the better and I believe it's a trade-off as far as survivability.

You can opt to go with an 5. SS Panzergrendierkampfgruppe Wiking (Grey Wolf), which beocme cheaper due to being Fearless/Trained, which may allow for some Panther support.

A compromise like this;

HQ: SS-Panzerkampfgruppe HQ (Panzergrenadier) - 1x CinC SMG, 1x 2iC SMG, 2x Sd Kfz 251/1 (60 pts)
- CinC SMG Panzerfaust (10 pts)
- 2iC SMG Panzerfaust (10 pts)

Gepanzerte SS Panzergrenadier Platoon - 1x Command MG, 6x MG, 4x Sd Kfz 251/1 (200 pts)
- Command SMG Panzerfaust (10 pts)
- 1x Upgrade MG to MG Panzerfaust (10 pts)

Gepanzerte SS Panzergrenadier Platoon - 1x Command MG, 6x MG, 4x Sd Kfz 251/1 (200 pts)
- Command SMG Panzerfaust (10 pts)
- 1x Upgrade MG to MG Panzerfaust (10 pts)

Compulsory SS Panzer Platoon - 1x Command Panther A, 2x Panther A (490 pts)
- 1x Upgrade Command to Panzer Kanone (65 pts)

Weapons: Armored SS Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon - 1x Command Armoured Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm) Half-track, 1x Armoured Sd Kfz 7/1 (Quad 2cm) Half-track (95 pts)

Armored SS Heavy Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 1x Sd Kfz 251/1 half-track, 4x HMG, 2x Sd Kfz 251/1 (HMG) half-track (130 pts)
- Mortar Section - 1x Observer Rifle, 1x Kubelwagen, 2x Sd Kfz 251/2 (8 cm) half-track (75 pts)

SS Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 1x Kubelwagen, 3x 7.6cm PaK 36(r), 3x 3-ton Truck (105 pts)

Support: Heavy SS-Panzerspah Patrol - 1x Command Sd Kfz 231 (8 rad), 1x Sd Kfz 231 (8 rad) (70 pts)

SS Armored Artillery Battery - 1x Command SMG, 1x Staff, 1x Observer Rifle, 1x kubelwagen, 1x Kfz 15 field Car, 1x Kfz 68 radio Truck, 3x Wespe (195 pts)


1745 Points, 8 Platoons

Your Panthers in this set-up have the Kanone rule which allows them to be brutal as they're you're dedicated AT unit now. Since it is a 3-tank platoon, the Kanone upgrade was a no-brainer as you need these guys to make the most of their lethality while they can. The PaK36(r)'s can be your ambush unit and they were compromise due to points and having the expensive Panthers. You still retain the full Heavy platoon for your HMG's and smoke-mortar section and your AA is the quad 2cm's instead of the single like on the 10/5's.

Now, you're fearless/Trained here, but if you run Danish troops in this config, your artillery with the Wespe's will fire as vets which can make them lethal. I do have some alternative lists with my Wiking forces which allow Hummels which brings more firepower to the table but I run Panzer IV's with Kanone and keep one of my infantry platoons as standard Panzer Grenaiders on foot to help protect the artillery sometimes.

Anyway, you still have one platoon of the 8-rads to help you seal-off a flank from opposing ambushes and help support your mobile infantry. I can figure some other options for you if you still want to stick with Confident/Vet Gep Grens though.....

Really interesting list!

But as a completely green player I think that I'd like to use vets, just to get them a bit more fire resistant.

What does the kanone-upgrade do?

It gives them a roll on the Kanone table, much like the Tiger Ace skills you roll for for Tigers.

If you want to stick with CV troops, then another compromise that includes your Panthers;

HQ: Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Company HQ - 1x CinC SMG, 1x 2iC SMG, 2x Sd Kfz 251/1 (65 pts)

Combat: Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - 1x Command MG, 1x Sd Kfz 251/1 or 251/10, 6x MG, 3x Sd Kfz 251/1 (220 pts)
- 1x Replace Command MG with Command Panzerfaust SMG (10 pts)

Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon - 1x Command MG, 1x Sd Kfz 251/1 or 251/10, 6x MG, 3x Sd Kfz 251/1 (220 pts)
- 1x Replace Command MG with Command Panzerfaust SMG (10 pts)

Gepanzerte Heavy Platoon - 1x Command SMG, 4x MG42 HMG, 1x Sd Kfz 251/1, 2x Sd Kfz 251/1 (HMG) (165 pts)
- Mortar Section - 1x Observer Rifle, 1x Kubelwagen, 2x Sd Kfz 251/2C (8cm) halftrrack (85 pts)

Weapons: Panzergrenadier Anti-aircraft Gun Platoon - 1x Command Armored Sd Kfz 10/5 (2cm) Half-track, 1x Armoured Sd Kfz 10/5 (2cm) Half-track (75 pts)

Support: Panther Platoon - 1x Command Panther A, 2x Panther A (560 pts)

Heavy Panzerspah Platoon - 2x Command Sd Kfz 231 (8 rad), 2x Sd Kfz 231 (8 rad) (160 pts)

Armored Rocket Launcher Battery - 1x Command SMG, 1x Kfz 15 field Car, 1x Observer Rifle, 1x kubelwagen, 3x Panzerwerfer 42 (165 pts)
- 3x Additional Crew (15 pts)


1750 Points, 8 Platoons

You get your Panthers here at the sacrifice of some ATG's and the command faust upgrades, though you could drop the recon 8-rads down to one platoon instead and keep the command upgrades if you want. Armored rocket launchers are at 3 with ectra crew which is the efficient number if you're trying to save points, but still good. You keep you HMG's and 8cm mortars for smoke and you have armored 10/5 AA half-tracks.

Your Panthers become your mobile AT and they kill at-range. You want to avoid assaults unless you are supporting your Panzergrenadiers with numerical superiority against the target. But the Panthers' strength is ranged AT. The recon, since I included 2 platoons, should protect your Panthers' flanks from ambushes. You should be able to pin targeted units with your rockets and smoke threats to your other units with your 8cm mortars which should give you some good service-life with your Panthers.

Nice! From which list is this created?

The same as yours....from the Gepenzerte Panzergrenadiers list in Grey Wolf.

OK, I was a bit confused as I couldn't find the option for just one group of 8-rads there, am I missing something here? I can only find options for 2 or three teams.

My bad....it's either 2 or 3.; you could go half-tracked Panzerspah with one platoon at 115 points which would allow you to upgrade you command HQ's to fausts.