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Hey guys.

Normally I am foudn in the WH40k section of DakkDakka, but recently my buddy and I (who I play 40k with) played the demo for the LOTR game. We played the Mines of Moria starter set at my local GW and it was very impressive, simple, and I really liked the system. I have always liked the models and wanted to learn the game but I just never went about trying to play a game. Also, I have always been worried about starting LOTR as I already have a Dark Angels and Orks army, and do NOT need another army and game system to deal with. However, talking with the store manager, it seems that LOTR is a relatively cheap game compared to the other systems, as models are cheaper and it seems you need less of them. I have stayed away from it mostly because any money going into LOTR would rather be spent towards more 40k stuff, especially with a new DA release rumored and needing an Ork overhaul. Anwho, are my presumptions of LOTR true?

Looking at the lists on this forum and the models online, it seems that you can "mix" good forces or mic evil forces together. Is that correct? If so, that would be an encouragement to play, as I could just snatch up a few models which I found interesting and cobble them together into good and evil armies respectively. I figured it'd be best to have one good army and one evil army that way no matter what an opponent had, I could play the opposite side and we could play a game. Do you need to have opposite forces or can a good army fight a good army?

I know that most of this could be clarified by the rulebook but I'd like answers before dropping money on the rulebook and supplements etc.

If I were to start any armies the things I like are (based mostly on movies/books and models in the range, not necessarily stats)

Good:
Aragorn
Gandalf (any form)
Gimli
Faramir / Rangers
Gondor / Minas Tirith guys.
Riders of Rohan (only on horses though)

Bad:
Witch King
Lurtz (mostly for the model)
Troll Chieftan Burdhurzderpyderpy (w/e his name is)
Uruk-Hai
Uruk-Hai Berserkers
Trolls (in all forms)

From these interests is it possible to make a pretty suitable and decent looking LOTR army on each side? I feel like my evil interests are more solid, as I could just do an Uruk-Hai warband(s) with troll support. For good, I'm not totally sure what to do. Could do Minas Tirith Guard with Gandalf as the leader, or Rohan with Gandalf on horseback etc. Or do a footsloggy army with Gandalf and Aragorn in Fellowship of the Ring garb as opposed to ROTK. Thoughts?

-VardenV2

Yes, yes you can.

Usually, I say this at the end of my post, but I'll say it here:

LoTR isn't as expensive to get a full army (standard is 500 points), Battle Companies is even cheaper. It uses the same basic rules, points costs, but you start with only a few models (6 for most cases), and they can level up and gain experience through campaigns (and it's always balanced).

You can get the rules on Scribd, GW used to have them on the website.

Now, I don't deal with the good guys that much, but I'll help you on your evil force.

I'd suggest Isengard, as you can get trolls.

The Witch King isn't very good (IMHO), as he tends to get stalled by some small unit and lose his will points until he dies.

I'll post up a suggested Isengard list in a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
500 Pts of Isengard:

Warband 1 - 114

Lurtz
6 Uruk-hai Scouts with Bows

Warband 2 (These guys are your CC force) - 190
Uruk-Hai Captain with Shield and Heavy Armor
5 Uruk-Warriors with Swords and Shields
5 Uruk-Hai Warriors with Pikes
2 Uruk-Hai Berzerkers (Though I prefer Fearal Uruk-Hai)

Warband 3 (These guys are your CC force as well) - 190
Uruk-Hai Captain with Shield and Heavy Armor
5 Uruk-Warriors with Swords and Shields
5 Uruk-Hai Warriors with Pikes
2 Uruk-Hai Berzerkers (Though I prefer Fearal Uruk-Hai)

That's 494 points, though I didn't stick a banner in. I love to have a banner for my Uruk-Hai.

Ok thanks so much for the post. I think I will try and find those rules on scribd and maybe get a warband going or w/e. I definitely like the feeling of that list you just made. The berserkers and sword and shield guys are perfect. Although maybe go 6 and 4? as I like the sword and shield models better. We will see. But my friend is quite fond of Rohan so maybe more pikes is a good thing haha.

Also, are those scouts cheaper (moneywise and points wise) than getting the crossbow uruk-hai? Because I like those guys too. Is Lurtz a bow user exclusively or does he have a sword and shield too?

-VardenV2

If you're starting, I'd recommend you get the Mines of Moria set (which you'd probably know). It gives you the entire fellowship (which is always useful) and a good deal of Moria Goblins and a Cave Troll.

From there, I expanded my Goblin host progressively so I had a huge bunch of goblins which are cheap points-wise and fun to play with.

I play Easterlings. The Easterlings are not well represented in the movies but they are incredibly tough in-game. They can have both a shield and a pike which allows them to fight in three rows - a warrior can have three attacks! They are also extremely heavily armoured and have a defence value of 5 normally and a defence of 6 with a shield. Since the average good guy enemy have a strength value of 3 then to wound they must roll a 5 if the defence value is 5 or a 6 if the defence value is 6.

Simply put, no you cannot mix good and evil.

Also the models are no longer cheaper. Instead of getting 24 infantry in a box you now get 12. This therefore makes it more expensive than 40k because the boxes are more expensive. Shame really since that was the first thing I thought of when playing.

Generally I play games of 750 points.

And I don't think the Witch-King is useless. He's probably the second most powerful evil sorcerer in the game after Sauron (who has a fantastic model). I usually use the Witch-King on a Fell-Beast because the fell-beast is quite powerful and gives the Witch-King protection from archers. Sadly I got the metal version - the plastic one is so much easier to assemble!

For Lurtz, I think he does have a sword and shield.

Pikes don't have an effect on cavalry, they only affect the number of soldiers that can "support" each other. Instead of just having one extra attack if a spear-armed unit is supporting a normal warrior in combat you get two extra attacks. Once with my Easterlings I managed to take down Aragorn and then Gimli by surrounding them with Easterlings that were supported by two pikemen each.

ExNoctem, I think what Varden was asking was if you can mix good with good and evil with evil. The answer to that is Yes!
And to your second question Varden, you CAN play a game of good vs. good or evil vs. evil. For example my favorite games are with my Rangers of Arnor against my friends Large mob of Dwarves.
I play good armies so far, but I am starting Easterlings (which I need help with ExNoctem) so I have to say, if you can keep Aragorn alive he is a BEAST!! in high point games he is worth it, just protect him from archers and being outnumbered, keep him in your mob, possibly handling a flank.
Rohan is not a very forgiving army, it can hit hard then get destroyed in the next turn. And if you are fighting an army with a lot of archers you could loose about a quarter of your force's calvary before you get to them.

One reccomendation I have is to not use the new warband composition rules(1 hero for every 12 warriors)

I don't like it. I want lots of basic grunts and one or 2 heroes. I find otherwise the Heroes dominate the game too much, which is real easy for some Heroes to do.

 Grey Templar wrote:
One reccomendation I have is to not use the new warband composition rules(1 hero for every 12 warriors)

I don't like it. I want lots of basic grunts and one or 2 heroes. I find otherwise the Heroes dominate the game too much, which is real easy for some Heroes to do.

Is that an official rule? I understood the resoning behind it, like 1HQ 2 troops minimum in 40k etc. but I am with you on that one. I saw no reason to have Lurtz, and two captains in an Uruk Hai army etc. Why is Lurtz there with them?! I mean, he could be a stand in character but still. I didn't like that it was about 3 heroes and then a handful of dudes. In the books and movies it is entire ARMIES and then a hero or two. Like, all of the rohirrim at Pellenor was Theodin, Eomer, Eowyn, Merry, and maybe some Rohan captains etc. that a ratio of about 1/1000 haha. Which seemed correct. W/e. We cna always house rule it. haha.

And very cool about the good vs good and evil vs evil. That really helps my group of friends get armies that are different but can still fight each other

-VardenV2

The 1:12 rule is in the new books, however if you play for fun i dont think anyone will call you out for breaking that rule. And i believe the warbands rule is similar to how a tactical squad has the sergeant.

 TheV0791 wrote:
The 1:12 rule is in the new books, however if you play for fun i dont think anyone will call you out for breaking that rule. And i believe the warbands rule is similar to how a tactical squad has the sergeant.

I will certainly run the warbands thing past my buddies. That sounds kind of like Necromunda or Mordheim or w/e but for LOTR. Which is bada$$. Anywho, thanks for all the advice. Now that I know the DAvs CSM box set is cheaper, maybe I will pick up a box of LOTR dudes too.

-VardenV2

I quite likethe hero/grunt ratio myself, but whatever floats your boat (Hell, I still play by the old fighting rules where we added our Fight values to the combat roll-offs).

Also, if you're playing Uruks I can't recommend Ugluk highly enough. Slap a vanilla Orc or two in his same band and keep them close to him; if you Break, just starting whacking their heads off for that double-range Stand-Fast! to keep your lads in the fight!

Also, always, always, always take crossbows over bows with Uruks. Seriously, it's worth the extra two points that it'll cost you compared to Scoots with bows: That S4 means you'll be putting hurt on a wider variety of goodies (Read: Gorram Dwarves). And if you take scouts, make sure to take Mauhur as their leader and get that Marauder upgrade. Yes a shielded Marauder costs as much as a shielded vanilla Uruk, but it's well worth it. Unless you take Wargs to fill the gap, you'll definitely want something with more speed. I love sticking my line Uruks into the fight and having Mauhur flank wide at top speed, messing up archers before slamming into the enemy's rear for some tide-changing Trapped! action.

Been a while since I posted here but I'll try my best to help

If you starting good, minas tirith is the easiest to start out with, solid troops with good defence and a plethora of heroes make them a solid choice. Same can be said for mordor however swap solid troops for cheaper and less reliable.

Stick with the warbands thing!! My games have been more epic with the introduction of this rule, heroes have really proven themselves. Before now for example I would never in a million years chosen a King of Men but he leads my Minas Tirith warband in my Kingdoms of Men force and is ALWAYS the star player, holding everything together or seriously breaking face. A couple of armies do suffer from the introduction of this rules (dwarves particularly) but once you hit 500pts no-one can say 'they don't work' because there is plenty of room.

Now what I would say about your mini preferences is this:

Aragorn should only be used in very big games, he's too many points, Boromir can be used in smaller and be easily as effective.
Rangers are awesome, don't have any personally but they are worth the points any day.
Minas Tirith, see above but also Guard of the Fountain Court are hard to kill and fearless provided the hero they are attached to is still alive.
RoR make an awesome compliment to most good forces due to their flexibility, just be warned if you only take riders only a third can have bows, the rest have them 'removed' from their war gear.

Now I am not an Uruk player but I here Lurtz just isn't that good.
The troll cheiftan is awesome however I would only ever run him with another PAIR of trolls to give him slight cover and to help split fire. Points sink supreme but played right.....holy cow ouch!
Uruk's I used to like but now I don't, mainly because for some reason I can't get them to perform no matter what I try! I think they are harder to command effectively than most people claim. Also the crossbows hurt. Like a bitch.
Trolls like I said above, PAIRS only and always. Play 40k? Same as the demon prince issue. And if your playing elves it will not be a fun day if they have their game on shooting wise. All in all they are generally not worth it. Better at complimenting goblin or orc armies as you can get more troops in what little point you have left to help your trolls from being surrounded and chopped up, only takes one bad fight phase, seen and experienced first hand

Anyways I hope that helps

Thank you all for the comments they certainly helped! I will of course take a look at the rules for LOTR but I have been suitably convinced to start a warband at least. My two theme ideas for a list are:

Good:
1) Gandalf and a cluster of Minas Tirith guys like in Return of the King on the walls.
2) Faramir and his rangers etc (my friend may be doing Easterlings/ oliphant guys so it's a cool matchup)

Evil:
Helm's Deep style siege Uruk-hai (to fight my friends inevitable Rohan army). AKA berserkers, crossbows, pikes and sword+shield uruks in front.

I probably will get a Lurtz model just because he is cool, but I don't think he fits too well in my siege style Helm's Deep thing.

-VardenV2

Gandalf/Minas Tirith was my first army. It was a blast to play. Gandalf is a great hero, just keep him out of combat and keep blasting people. Give him some Guard of the Fountain Court to watch his back and he will outlast the battle.

 VardenV2 wrote:
Thank you all for the comments they certainly helped! I will of course take a look at the rules for LOTR but I have been suitably convinced to start a warband at least. My two theme ideas for a list are:

Good:
1) Gandalf and a cluster of Minas Tirith guys like in Return of the King on the walls.
2) Faramir and his rangers etc (my friend may be doing Easterlings/ oliphant guys so it's a cool matchup)

Evil:
Helm's Deep style siege Uruk-hai (to fight my friends inevitable Rohan army). AKA berserkers, crossbows, pikes and sword+shield uruks in front.

I probably will get a Lurtz model just because he is cool, but I don't think he fits too well in my siege style Helm's Deep thing.

-VardenV2

Sounds sick. Good luck and happy gaming!

 Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:

Aragorn should only be used in very big games, he's too OP,

Fixed that for you