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Hello all,

I have been experiment with DE allies for my eldar with great success, although I am still a bit torn exactly how to loadout my venom. I need a troop choice for my DE, and the Baron is my DE HQ, so no wracks(sadly) unless I wanted an elites choice.

5 Kabbies+blaster have been my go to loadout, but I am debating about using 5 chicks with haywires instead. Same points cost, but different roles. Some games I find heavy armor a pain in my , other games I need all the AI I can muster. So I have the pro's and con's listed, but even still.

Kabbies+blaster
Pros
-Contribute to AI fire.
-Can be used at range along with the 2 splinter cannons of the venom.
-Blaster adds some AI punch
-If the venom goes down, the are slightly more survivable and can contribute fire.
-Might actually survive long enough to score
-Better synergy with Night shields.

Cons
-Blaster and splinters have mixed roles. A single blaster against a tank can be underwhelming.
-Getting that close to a tank means you are probably getting shot down if you dont finish it off(even with night shields)
-Snap shooting if you move more than 6".


Wytches with grenades
Pros
-Possibly the best AT in the game for the points!
-Good return on investment.
-Not bad at assault if they absolutely must.
-Plasma grenades mean they can even do some emergency AI shooting.
-Night shields less critical.

Cons
-Overwatch will pinkmist them.
-Almost worthless if your opponent has no heavy armor.
- Venom spends more time moving fast, less time shooting.
-Venom will likely go down in the process.
-If the venom goes down, they are probably all dead. The survivors are also worthless and easy to kill in the open.


It seems to me the kabbies are better rounded, but the wytches are more useful if you see AV13-14.

What do you use? I could maybe even get a squad of each. My army is footdar with the avatar, eldrad, harlequins, guardians/rangers/ wraithlords setup.

Kabalites in venoms are pretty gak, to be honest. Especially as an allied detachment. Only reason they were taken in 5th was to contribute to darklight spam and get a venom on the cheap.

A single blaster only has something like an 18% chance to kill AV 10. That's without factoring cover in. Considering you can only get a maximum of two in an allied detachment, you might as well not even bring them. Four splinter rifles aren't going to kill anything tougher than a depleted gretchin squad out of cover. The venom will pull its weight, as it always does but you're better off with haywyches.

For 5 points more than a kabalite venom with a night shield, you can get a venom with 5 wyches, haywire grenades and a hekatrix with a venom blade. You now have a decent counter-charge unit that can feth up anything AV 12+ without batting an eye, plus a Venom. Hold them back with your main force and rain splinter fire down on people, redeploy as necessary. If anything is giving you trouble, skip over there to disembark some wyches to make it go bye-bye with haywire grenades. They're well worth their points in an assault, provided you don't charge any full-strength MEQ squads or anything with a flamer. They will surprise you with how much gak they can kill more often than they will disappoint you. Don't go charging off half-cocked just because they're an assault unit, the venom is the reason you bought this squad. The girls inside are pretty much just a scoring upgrade who get to shine when there's a land raider on the field, or work as maids cleaning up the one or two leftover marines that the splinter rain missed.

I've never been disappointed with Haywyches, I've been disappointed a lot with kabalites in venoms.

I completely agree with lokas. Eldar has no cheap anti AV13-14. Our bright lacnes are stupid expensice and mostly on BS 3 platforms. So I take hay-wyches in a venom to make up for our anti heavy tank short-comings.

I actually screwed up my math a bit. Blasters have an 19~% chance of stripping a hull point.

1 shot * 66% chance to hit = .667

* 66% chance to pen = .445

*33% chance of an explodes result = .148~

So about a 15% chance of destroying an AV 10 vehicle.

Whereas, Haywyches have a .55~ chance of stripping a hull point per grenade (thrown or in assault, provided the vehicle moved)

They get 6 grenades between assault and shooting, so .55 * 6 = 3.33~ hull points stripped.

That's anything but a land raider all but guaranteed dead and the land raider not having exciting chances of survival either.

Half naked, pissed off women from the void. With grenades.

 Razgriz22 wrote:
Half naked, pissed off women from the void. With grenades.

So...my wife?

Actually, I concur for a few reasons. The biggest is that I play Orks, and the wytches are nifty for some of the harder to pop tanks.

Who've had more luck shooting down fliers than any other unit in my army.

I can't complain about bad luck, despite the times I've seen 12 inch charges by lone wolves and 72 splinter shots kill 6 guardsmen. Not when I've killed 2 stormravens and a vendetta (Not in the same game mind you) with thrown haywire grenades and watched my venoms become invincible bunkers every single time they are immobilized.

I have ridiculous luck, s'what it is. Neither good nor bad, ridiculous.

 Razgriz22 wrote:
Half naked, pissed off women from the void. With grenades.

This alone sells me on the idea. Seriously though all good points. So yeah, looks like im going with girls. Thanks for the input!