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Hello Dakka! So, I realize this has probably been asked before but I need opinions on Deathwing Terminators. I recently acquired two sets of the termies from DV. Is it viable to run two squads with this setup in a DA army?
As a reminder here it is:
x5 Deathwing - asscan, chainfist, all stormbolters.

Should I pickup a box of termies and build them all with TH/SS? The other idea I had was possibly mixing them. Would two squads of x2 TH/SS, asscannon, and chainfist work?
What has worked for you for Deathwing?

Not really that viable given the current codex needs as much help as possible.
The DV guys are hard to remodel and you have a new codex coming. I would not bother, keep them as they are and just play an inferior list.

MFletch wrote:
Not really that viable given the current codex needs as much help as possible.
The DV guys are hard to remodel and you have a new codex coming. I would not bother, keep them as they are and just play an inferior list.

You seem extremely unhelpful.


@ OP

Though I'm not familiar with the Dark Angel's codex, I'm fairly sure you cannot mix Assault Terminators and Tacticals. TH/SS cannot be mixed into a unit with Stormbolters / Assault Cannons, for example. Are you using the actual Dark Angels codex or Codex: Space Marines?

Either way, the Assault Cannon + Chainfist + stormbolters is a perfectly reasonable build for a tactical squad. It brings a good amount of firepower and the unit will still perform fine in assaults, so I'd suggest taking just the one unit of 5 and seeing how it plays and go from there.

 Boneblade wrote:

MFletch wrote:
Not really that viable given the current codex needs as much help as possible.
The DV guys are hard to remodel and you have a new codex coming. I would not bother, keep them as they are and just play an inferior list.

You seem extremely unhelpful.


@ OP

Though I'm not familiar with the Dark Angel's codex, I'm fairly sure you cannot mix Assault Terminators and Tacticals. TH/SS cannot be mixed into a unit with Stormbolters / Assault Cannons, for example. Are you using the actual Dark Angels codex or Codex: Space Marines?

Either way, the Assault Cannon + Chainfist + stormbolters is a perfectly reasonable build for a tactical squad. It brings a good amount of firepower and the unit will still perform fine in assaults, so I'd suggest taking just the one unit of 5 and seeing how it plays and go from there.

I am unhelpful? You have no idea what you are talking about. No idea. Whereas I answered the question, the answer being no, then suggested an alternative, just waiting. Fairly solid advice.

Deathwing is a very limited army in many ways. They really need the cheap CML for range and to save points. When you have a relatively immobile army the extra range is needed. When you have an army with very few models you need the flexibility of missiles.
2+ is very solid, but SS/TH is probably needed as there are always plasma guns around.
One of the issues deathwing have is actually surviving cc, interestingly enough. You will be assaulted by the hardest units the enemy has to offer, you have a small immobile force so the enemy dictates a few things. Lightning claws just even up the score.

Chain fists can be interesting extra. Stormbolters just do not add that much, you do not need more bolter shots particularly. Assault cannon is lovely weapon but getting close to use it is going to be the problem. If anything with all of this just mix the terminator models you have with some assault terminators and some CML models and you'll probably have reasonable enough units.
Remember the apothecary and standard, I really enjoyed modelling these it was easy using a command squad box

Good luck In just a few months you should probably the strongest codex available apart from the chaos one nearly looks balanced so we'll see.

First off, the OP never said anything about running PURE DEATHWING, he wants opinions on just the terminators to add to his DA army.

Reading comprehension FTW!

DW terminators can actually be quite a force on the table top, they shore up some of the DA's biggest weakness - good assault capability. Unlike any other terminator squad, they can mix their weapons. So definitely do so! My suggestion is 2x TH/SS, 1 SB/CF, 1 SB/PF & probably a CML/LC. Or, if you have the long range game solidy covered, the assault cannon/CF is a solid backup. If you're DS'ing or footslogging these guys, angle the TH's towards the enemy so they have good chances of deflecting a good portion of the incoming fire they are sure to see. They really shine coming out of a LR Crusader tho - throw those guys in there w/ an Interrogator Chaplain & you can dish out the hurt. This does come w/ a hefty price tag, so be sure to protect it accordingly. Full on 'Tactical' termies don't really bring you anything you can't get elsewhere for cheaper in your list, so you're really best off mixing & matching weapons.

In combat they are much better than they were before, being Fearless, you no longer have to take wounds @ the end of combat if you lost, so you just stay stuck there, which realistically, is where termies want to be anyway.

Also, as has been said, the new DA 'dex should be hitting shelves next month, so this could all change so do be aware of that. I'm hoping that you'll still be able to mix weapons in your DW squads, it's one of your nicer abilities.

~Vryce

None of the advice was tailored to pure deathwing. They are still best suited to be slowly walking forward giving cover saves to everything else.

 Vryce wrote:
In combat they are much better than they were before, being Fearless, you no longer have to take wounds @ the end of combat if you lost, so you just stay stuck there, which realistically, is where termies want to be anyway.

Did deathwing terminators ever take fearless wounds? They are better due to the lack of ap2 weapons in cc.

I also have two sets of DV termies and I have to admit, they really don't last long if your opponent has anything with AP 2 or lots of shots. I find that a 100% TH/SS squad with a CML is the best way to go. They are much more survivable and are even cheaper than the squad that comes in the box.
MFletch is right about how it's not going to be easy converting the DV termies into TH/SS ones, so just use the ones you have as proxies (unless your gaming club is full of jerks) until you can get the assault termie set.

Yeah DW can mix their weapons. Usually it is best to do all SS/TH temries if you are trying to be competetive. But with a new dex soon I wouldn't buy anything as the rules are likely to change.

It is usually good to have something like

Sgt with TH/SS
TH/SS
SB/PF with CML
SB/CF
Lightnng Claws

This is the most flexible squad, of course, each model you lose will lessen your flexibility.

A crusader with an interrogator chaplain and this:

Sgt w/ TH/SS
AssCannon/CF
Th/SS
Claws
Claws (or TH/SS is ok)

This can put some serious hur ton people. Lots of shield to absorb saves, sgt can shrug off challenges and strong hitting weapons and AP2 etc and dish out damage too. The claws go at initiative 4 and can thin out the front ranks of anything besides other 2+ saves (re-roll to hit AND wounds. Thanks chappy ) Then the fists and thunder hammers can beat the crap ut of people. Also, your chaplain can challenge other characters w/o a 3+ save or better and seriously beat them up. Wounding on 2s usually with re-rolls to hit and causing concussion is pretty mean against non MEQ. If MEQ challenges you, send in your termie sgt with shield. You should be able to handily kill most things, except really hard equivalent units.

-VardenV2

Having looked at the DV set, I also have to agree that they aren't the easiest to convert - especially if you have little experience with doing it. The simplest thing you could do would be to do a weapon swap on the sergeant with the raised sword. It should be pretty easy to switch that power weapon out for any other one but in particular I was thinking it would be a good switch for a hammer. The right hand would then either be remodeled or have the storm bolter removed to put on a shield. The shield would also help cover up any converting work you did in case it wasn't too neat.

As for the rest, the next easiest change might be to do lightning claws as the p.fists are more-or-less the same size as a claw-fist so there should be some scope in there for doing something.

Good luck with whatever you try!

I have a pure Deathwing army, currently at 1500 points.

Yes you can have a mix of Assault and Tactical Deathwing, but there are huge disadvantages to this.

First of all... your Command Squad. It's only worth taking TH/SS here. You will be in the fight on Turn One. They help by doing two things. Giving your opponent a distraction while the rest of your army bombs up in Land Raiders and a total Ball Breaker CC unit that is nails. Give them an Apothecary and you have one of the toughest CC units in the game.

Second... Troops Choices. While you can have a mix you dilute the effectiveness of either build. Going all Shooty is probably best here. Stick them in a Crusader and pop them out near assault range. Shoot then assault. You'll do some dmg and if the Assault squad is still alive you'd be best to charge them in first making them take Overwatch and then charge the Shooty squad in. This will kill most units.

Thirdly... Transports. While vehicles did get "weaker" Land Raiders are still nails and tough to destroy. I take two Crusaders in 1500. While they have only one Anti Tank weapon, they can really bring the hurt to units of infantry. If you manage to bust open a transport, the remaining unit inside is going to be bricking it under the firepower of a Crusader and the Terminators disembarking.

Finally... Anti Tank.

Deathwing are not great at taking out vehicles (especially flyers). If you are lucky enough to have Mortis Dreads, they do awesome vs Flyers, but the only thing Deathwing can do is take the Cyclone Launcher or take Dreads or Godhammer Land Raiders. I currently do not have any dedicated Anti Tank other than a single Dread in 1500. For 1750 - 2000 I intend to take 1-2 squads of Deathwing with Cyclones. the rest have Assault Cannons.

The army is very tough, but you have to give your opponents too many dangerous targets. While you will hold objectives, you will be outnumbered in assaults. You have to use units in conjunction with each other to destroy your opponents.

A little subterfuge goes a long way.

This is what I think, my armies first game is on Wednesday.

Puscifer wrote:
I have a pure Deathwing army, currently at 1500 points.

Yes you can have a mix of Assault and Tactical Deathwing, but there are huge disadvantages to this.

First of all... your Command Squad. It's only worth taking TH/SS here. You will be in the fight on Turn One. They help by doing two things. Giving your opponent a distraction while the rest of your army bombs up in Land Raiders and a total Ball Breaker CC unit that is nails. Give them an Apothecary and you have one of the toughest CC units in the game.

Second... Troops Choices. While you can have a mix you dilute the effectiveness of either build. Going all Shooty is probably best here. Stick them in a Crusader and pop them out near assault range. Shoot then assault. You'll do some dmg and if the Assault squad is still alive you'd be best to charge them in first making them take Overwatch and then charge the Shooty squad in. This will kill most units.

Thirdly... Transports. While vehicles did get "weaker" Land Raiders are still nails and tough to destroy. I take two Crusaders in 1500. While they have only one Anti Tank weapon, they can really bring the hurt to units of infantry. If you manage to bust open a transport, the remaining unit inside is going to be bricking it under the firepower of a Crusader and the Terminators disembarking.

Finally... Anti Tank.

Deathwing are not great at taking out vehicles (especially flyers). If you are lucky enough to have Mortis Dreads, they do awesome vs Flyers, but the only thing Deathwing can do is take the Cyclone Launcher or take Dreads or Godhammer Land Raiders. I currently do not have any dedicated Anti Tank other than a single Dread in 1500. For 1750 - 2000 I intend to take 1-2 squads of Deathwing with Cyclones. the rest have Assault Cannons.

The army is very tough, but you have to give your opponents too many dangerous targets. While you will hold objectives, you will be outnumbered in assaults. You have to use units in conjunction with each other to destroy your opponents.

A little subterfuge goes a long way.

This is what I think, my armies first game is on Wednesday.

Those are pretty good points

However to the OP are you planning a Pure Deathwing or a DA with Deathwing elites

if pure deathwing alternate TH/SS CML squads and shooty squads

IF your using standard DA all shooty works just pick which units you go up against carefully and shoot the AP 2 guys dead first.