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Hi guys,

Had a thought last night on the knotty problem of challenges being used to snipe out Ork characters. A lot of people are suggesting that they have access to weapons that allow them to use their base initiative, but I don't think that will work as our initiative isn't that good to start with. Plus the powerklaw is our only reliable anti-tank weapon.

Instead, I propose to boost the viability:

Gerr 'im Boss! Rule
Orks live for close combat and feed off the Waargh! energy generated by their comrades; when challenged an Ork leader gets so energised by the boys cheering him on that he can ignore even the most crippling of wounds. An Ork character attached to a unit of 10 or more Orks can force a challenger to reroll all successful rolls to wound during a combat.

Any comments or suggestions?

Why do you want a rule thats designed to break a game balancing rule? You realize yo can decline challenges yes?

davou wrote:
Why do you want a rule thats designed to break a game balancing rule? You realize yo can decline challenges yes?

because ork nobz are horrible in challenges atm which is infuriating for Orks to not use something we spend 45 pts on

because ork nobz are horrible in challenges atm which is infuriating for Orks to not use something we spend 45 pts on

Particularly when we're supposed to have a close combat orientated army and there's nothing we can give to a Nob to allow him to even survive the first round of a challenge, nevermind actually do any damage.

And, as I mentioned in the original post, a Nob with powerklaw is our primary anti-vehicle weapon. Every time an Ork player bemoans the lack of ranged anti-tank the answer is always "well that's what PKs are for". That's fine and dandy, except for the fact that now pretty much any small speed bump infantry unit can snipe the damn PK out of the squad! /rant

I would say that the nob should have a rule to boost him rather then the enemy.

Nob always gets crowd support even if the cheering on is in melee, if anything in the ork world orks cheer when hacking and slashing. Resulting in the nob being allowed a re-roll for every 5 orks in combat at the start of combat, even if the nob doesn't swing first.

I did consider a combat boost like that, but it doesn't solve the problem of the nob being dead before he gets to swing.

 Jadenim wrote:
I did consider a combat boost like that, but it doesn't solve the problem of the nob being dead before he gets to swing.

Expect to see a return of Boyz squads getting CC weapons again. Like Burnas for example, I will deny the challenge all day long if I have power weapons in melee

I would like to see Nobz get toys though like power axes, power mauls, shields of some sort ect. because as it stands right now, orks are the only army in the game that struggles to punch armor at an init other than 1.

Loosing a challenge isn't I the end of the world... particularly if you were going to lose 7+ other Orks in the deal otherwise. Plus we get rerolls

Jadenim wrote:A lot of people are suggesting that they have access to weapons that allow them to use their base initiative, but I don't think that will work as our initiative isn't that good to start with.

It allows you to strike simultaneously (read: strike at all) with any SoB unit, or any imperial guard unit, or other ork nobz. It lets you strike faster (read: possibly preventing your opponent from striking at all) than necron units, most ork models, some tyranid models, and literally anything with a powerfist.

Your initiative doesn't have to be good, it just has to be equal or better.

Jadenim wrote: Plus the powerklaw is our only reliable anti-tank weapon.

?

It's not even the only reliable anti-tank weapon on a NOB. A nob with a big choppa is S7 on the charge. That's likely to put a lot of glancing hits on stuff.

Furthermore, rokkits? Deffrollas? Lootas? Tankbustas? Fliers?

Plus, there are ways to get klaws on nobz that don't rely on nob characters (like those on bikes or MANZ).

Jadenim wrote: An Ork character attached to a unit of 10 or more Orks can force a challenger to reroll all successful rolls to wound during a combat.

But that's not going to do very much. A power fist still has a pretty darn good chance to kill a nob with instant death, even if you force a reroll.

You'd be better off finding some way to properly hide nobz again (like a rule allowing the nob to force someone else to accept a challenge in his place), but as 6th ed is all about stamping out hidden weapon upgrades...

I don't see the problem and I'm an Ork player.
Nobs are pretty damn hard already. A charging Space Marine sergeant with a power sword does one wound according to mathhammer, then the nob kills the sergeant with his klaw.

Honestly the way I would play it would be:

An Ork Nob is so tough, that if it is leading a squad of 10 or more it is not removed as a casaulty until the end of the last initiative step.

That way he gets to hit regardless, but he can still be singled out and killed.

I don't see why people are whining about the Orks nobz .... they are still some of the toughest (and kinda cheap) squads leaders in the whole game

Run a Space Marine sergeant with power fist (that's 55 points by the way) and see what happens to him in duels with big bad guys .... oh right, he dies an even quicker death than the Nob

Of course a Nob gets killed by big HQs, that is normal, in a regular duel against a regular opponent (read "another normal squad leader"), it's very balanced

I love how people assume GW does its best to "balance the rules" . Anyway I think this would be solved by taking orks back to the good old days were choppas affected armor saves. Give me "Choppas reduce armor save by 1" and I will put it on a nob without hesitation! Heck, I'll put it on my Warboss without hesitation! Sigh, it's too bad they don't have Andy Chambers anymore to tilt the scales back in favor of the orkses.