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Hey. I've been away from the game and dakka for well over a year now. With the new release of the Chaos Dex i'm torn between "Awesome new models! NEW RULES!" ".....For how much? "

But it's not just an update there is a new ruleset so I'll get Dark Vengeance as it will enchance the choices I have for a 2000 point army. What this band of chaos-tainted abominations will be are Word Bearers. Complete with the HQ slots being a Dark Apostle and Daemon Prince. The core will be four solid units of CSM just regular CSM. I want to know how possessed are. If they are worth taking as it would make sense for them to be. My final question is with thinks like the Slaughterfiend, Helbrute and the flyer...What of the Defiler? Has it been given the carnifex treatment so it's basically useless compared to the new toys?

I've also been told by a co-worker that transports aren't as necessary as they were in 5th ed. And finally. How exactly -do- the allies rules work? Although i'm quite sure I can easily break even on 2000 with CSM alone I do entertain the idea of having some Nurgle or Khorne demons present.

Allies are an addition to the current FoC.

An FoC is 2 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 FA, 3 Elite, and 3 HS. It also includes a fortification slot and an optional Allies section.

There is the normal 1 HQ and 2 Troops minimum for your main force with everything else being optional.

If you choose to take allies, you must take at least 1 HQ and 1 Troop for that Ally. You can then have 1 more troop and 1 each of FA, Elite, and HS.

At 2000 points, you can take double the above. But you must also meet double the requirements if you want to do that. So to take another Ally army and another Fortification you would have to have another HQ and 2 Troops of the main army.

These are in the main rulebook but it can be difficult to wrap your head around it seeing it for the first time.


As for Chaos specifically.

Defilers got a boost in survivability, they just don't have the shiny that other stuff does. I think they are still good. They do have a 5+ invuln and It Will Not Die to keep them alive. Plus they still have a Battlecannon.

Possessed don't suck anymore. Thats about it.

A 5+ Inv? Well. That's some awesome incentive!

Of course the other Daemon Engines have the 5+ invuln and IWND too.

The 2 new walker models are specialised units and make the Defiler like a jack of all trade, master of none model.

The Forgefiend is really good at range with 8 S8 shots and a small S8 blast. It's a lot better than a large S8 blast and a lot more reliable.

The Maulerfiend pop vehicles in close and it can move up to 12" ignoring difficult terrain. It's a vehicule hunter with it's magma cutters.

The Defiler can have 3 power fists if you want to buy them (+2A) and it's still a great item, but for 45 more pts than the previous edition it just fall short.

I believe it's still going to be great in smaller games when you will need to sit on an objective, but for the points... it's not going to be seen in many armies.

On the subject of transport, they are still necessary, the need to make your troops move faster is still there and mobility is always a key component of any strategy.

Vehicles and rhinos tend to blow up faster because of the new hull points rule but that's life.

It's vehicles in general that have a tougher life in the 6th ed. but it will bring balance on the field and we will see a lot more troops on the battlefield from now on.

 Shadowbrand wrote:
Hey. I've been away from the game and dakka for well over a year now. With the new release of the Chaos Dex i'm torn between "Awesome new models! NEW RULES!" ".....For how much? "

But it's not just an update there is a new ruleset so I'll get Dark Vengeance as it will enchance the choices I have for a 2000 point army. What this band of chaos-tainted abominations will be are Word Bearers. Complete with the HQ slots being a Dark Apostle and Daemon Prince. The core will be four solid units of CSM just regular CSM. I want to know how possessed are. If they are worth taking as it would make sense for them to be. My final question is with thinks like the Slaughterfiend, Helbrute and the flyer...What of the Defiler? Has it been given the carnifex treatment so it's basically useless compared to the new toys?

I've also been told by a co-worker that transports aren't as necessary as they were in 5th ed. And finally. How exactly -do- the allies rules work? Although i'm quite sure I can easily break even on 2000 with CSM alone I do entertain the idea of having some Nurgle or Khorne demons present.

As an aside, the Dark Angels that come with Dark Vengeance are extremely difficult to convert, so I would suggest seeing about selling the DA half on Ebay or similar (or better, seeing if you could find the Chaos half plus rulebook online, it will probably save you more money that way). In case you don't already know, the Chaos half of DV comes with 2 squads of cultists, 6 chosen, a lord in power armour, and a hellbrute, which is effectively a dreadnought with a new name and slightly better crazed rules. It's a decent start, but remember that its far from a complete list (I remember reading somewhere that the most that the modes costed pointwise was less than 500 points).

Also, although I personally have not had the opportunity to extensively go over the chaos codex, what I've picked up from conversation is this. Possessed are still over-priced for what you get. The mutations table is still random, and there are some other minor issues. I can't speak about the Hellbrute but the consensus is that it is better than it was before, but it now also has stiffer competition. Of the Forge/Maulerfiend, the Forgefiend is generally preferred because of the large volume of S8 shooting they can put out. The Maulerfiend also has the problems with the general walker durability nerfs in 6th, but the 12" move helps it compared to most other armies. The Helldrake (the flier) is quite good, but you have to be careful how you equip it. The Baleflamer makes it amazing against ground targets, but forced to rely on vector strike against other fliers (which means that it will probably loose any air-superiority battles it gets in), however, the other gun (forget the name right now) makes it better at air supperiority, but at a significant cost to ground performance (and still not exceptional at air superiority at that). The general consensus is that the Defiler was worth than it was in 6th, and it haves stiff competition, but it is by no means worthless.

Transports aren't as necessary as they were in 5th, but that by no means that you can write them off. Mech is still just as good if not better than footslogging, although the gap between foot lists and mech lists undoubtedly did narrow. An important note is that 4+ cover is now exceptionally difficult to get and cover is now on a by-model instead of a by-unit basis, meaning that if you are relying on cover saves you are going to see more infantry models go down.

Allies are explained in the BRB, but I'll give you a run down. For each FOC, you may take an allied detachment, consisting of 1 HQ, 1-2 Troops, and 0-1 each of Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy Support from a different codex. What codex you can bring as allies depends on what army you are using in your primary detachment, and depending on their relationship (determined by the allies matrix), there are different bonuses and penalties. The relationships range from the units almost being as if they were from the same codex, to units from the two different codices having a 1 in 6 chance of not doing anything for a turn if they are within 6" of each other. There are also armies that can never ally, the biggest example being Tyranids, who can not ally with anybody.

As an additional note, you can also take 0 -1 Fortifications (a new option found in the rule book which are essentially purchaseable buildings). Additionally, in games of at least 2000 points, you may choose to bring a second FOC, although you must also meet the minimum requirements for that detachment (ie, 1HQ 2 Troops). The second FOC allows you to bring an additional fortification and an additional allied detachment, but the second allied detachment must be from the same codex as the first.

And for the record, Daemons and Chaos Space Marines have the highest ally relationship, so you are good to go to bring some Daemons as allies.