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Re-reading through the C:SM today, and I came across the Legion of the Damned section, which I'd never really studied previously. I'm working on a Salamanders army list, and one of my FLGS has some Legion models on sale, so it made me wonder whether the LOTD would be a viable option.

For 215 points, you can get five LotD marines with a flamer, heavy flamer, and a combi-flamer or combi-melta on the sergeant. They can deepstrike, are fearless, and have 3++ saves.

In contrast, for 185 points, you can get five Sternguard with two heavy flamers and any combination of three combi-flamers or combi-meltas in a drop pod. You lose the fearless and the invulnerable save, but save 30 points and upgrade a flamer to a heavy flamer, and two more combi- weapons for Vulkan to twin-link. (And you get an additional storm bolter on the drop pod?)

I think the 30 point differential is minor but could be consequential (you could include a sixth member of the Sternguard squad, for instance), but I think the LotD marines could be much more durable. Also worth noting is that the LotD marines have Slow and Purposeful, so they can rapid fire their bolters and still assault on the same turn. (SaP doesn't really have an impact on the Heavy Flamer.)

Always looking for more things to twin-link,

Aspiring Salamander Captain

Legion of the Damned are rubbish, and should rarely if ever get used.

Yes they have an invulnerable save, but they die just as easily to massed small arms as any other marine, and that's one of the big things to kill marines.

Slow and purposeful is not that useful, as being able to assault with them won't achieve much except against rubbish units-they can barely kill other marines in CC.

Fearless isn't that much better than ATSKNF, and can in fact be worse on a shooting unit.

Sternguard are far superior, can come in on turn 1 with a drop pod, are cheaper, have far more options and have their awesome ammunition.

sternguard. use combi weapons, you lose access to their special ammo if you take anything else. You'll still get the re roll because of vulkan.

The Sternguard are way better. The Pod makes Deep Strike much safer, Fearless is generally a bad thing for Marines (who are usually shooty, and if they are losing combats they want to be able to flee/auto rally) and the 3++ isn't that useful because its not protecting any meaningful damage output (unlike TH/SS Terminators for example). Also note that Slow and Purposeful means that you can't Overwatch, which is a major factor in a unit which is going to be up close and uses flamer weapons. The Sternguard also get special ammo, which means they hit harder even without factoring in any specials etc.

As everyone is saying, the sternguard are better. If you live in a very plasma heavy environment, the fact that the LotD has a 3++ instead of a 3+ an make a difference. But for the most part, it won't matter.

LotD are one of the "weak" units in our codex. It doesn't help that they share space with sternguard, who are one of our best units. But they can still get the job done, just not as effectively as others. Are you building a competitive list you plan on taking to tournaments? Or a fun list? Using them is not going to make you auto-loose, but taking sub-par units is playing with a minor handicap. But not an insurmountable one. And one thing you have to give the Legion of the Damned, is that they do look cool.

And playing with cool looking minis is a big part of the game.

Sternguard, take a couple combi weapons, shove them in a pod and they'll do something.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Sternguard, take a couple combi weapons, shove them in a pod and they'll do something.

...everytime.

Take the sternguard. They are cheaper and better, because of special issue ammo, and the fact that they deep strike sooner and safer. The 3++ is only going to matter if you are getting shot at by ap 3 or better, and the lotd are more vulnerable to null zone.

Hands down, sternguard.

Having twin linked combi weapons helps mitigate the chances of whiffing with your single shot. Meltas and flamers synergize well with sternguard special ammo. Meltas and hellfire rounds against MC's, flamers and dragonfire rounds against infantry relying on cover saves. Plus Vulkan can ride in their pod(there is your heavy flamer)

I would get the legion models anyways, and just use them as a tac squad or something. They look pretty sweet, and being black and covered in fire fits well with sally theme.

Sternguard. Increased adaptability and cheaper cost

I cry a little when ever i think how useless the LotD are, they are just so weak. so yeah sternguard

Armadeus wrote:
Take the sternguard. They are cheaper and better, because of special issue ammo, and the fact that they deep strike sooner and safer. The 3++ is only going to matter if you are getting shot at by ap 3 or better, and the lotd are more vulnerable to null zone.

Being more vulnerable to Null Zone doesn't matter when the other option is not getting a ++ save at all though.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Armadeus wrote:
Take the sternguard. They are cheaper and better, because of special issue ammo, and the fact that they deep strike sooner and safer. The 3++ is only going to matter if you are getting shot at by ap 3 or better, and the lotd are more vulnerable to null zone.

Being more vulnerable to Null Zone doesn't matter when the other option is not getting a ++ save at all though.

I was just pointing out that, while the sternguard are more vulnerable to low ap weaponry, the 3++ saves are sometimes worse, though not often.

Armadeus wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Armadeus wrote:
Take the sternguard. They are cheaper and better, because of special issue ammo, and the fact that they deep strike sooner and safer. The 3++ is only going to matter if you are getting shot at by ap 3 or better, and the lotd are more vulnerable to null zone.

Being more vulnerable to Null Zone doesn't matter when the other option is not getting a ++ save at all though.

I was just pointing out that, while the sternguard are more vulnerable to low ap weaponry, the 3++ saves are sometimes worse, though not often.

Huh, I didn't know they didn't have a normal armour save. You're absolutely right. Sorry about that.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


Huh, I didn't know they didn't have a normal armour save. You're absolutely right. Sorry about that.

No problem, most people don't realize that.

Sternguard, for all the reasons stated above.

Definitely sternguard.

I play Salamanders, and combi- (flamer or melta, your choice) wielding Sternguard kicking out of a Drop Pod have done some serious carnage on my behalf. I highly recommend them. Coupled with a librarian with Gate of Infinity and Force Dome they are deadly.

I've tried LotD a few times, but they've never worked out for me. By contrast, very rarely do I regret making room for Sternguard in a list.

So, I've just skimmed the replies, but I think I'm sensing a SLIGHT preference for the Sternguard. Are LotD just overpriced for what you get?

Anyone know a cheap place to find a bunch of Drop Pods? I do think I may go back to that store and get some of the LotD, if only for the Heavy Flamer bitz.

Any thoughts on Heavy Flamers/Multimeltas for the Sternguard?

milo wrote:
So, I've just skimmed the replies, but I think I'm sensing a SLIGHT preference for the Sternguard. Are LotD just overpriced for what you get?

Anyone know a cheap place to find a bunch of Drop Pods? I do think I may go back to that store and get some of the LotD, if only for the Heavy Flamer bitz.

Any thoughts on Heavy Flamers/Multimeltas for the Sternguard?

Usually, sacrificing a bolter on a sternguard veteran for a Heavy Flamer or other Heavy weapon means that you are making them less flexible, which is where they should shine. Most people will tell you to never do away with your Bolter, and just take Combi Weapons.

 Alkasyn wrote:

milo wrote:
So, I've just skimmed the replies, but I think I'm sensing a SLIGHT preference for the Sternguard. Are LotD just overpriced for what you get?

Anyone know a cheap place to find a bunch of Drop Pods? I do think I may go back to that store and get some of the LotD, if only for the Heavy Flamer bitz.

Any thoughts on Heavy Flamers/Multimeltas for the Sternguard?

Usually, sacrificing a bolter on a sternguard veteran for a Heavy Flamer or other Heavy weapon means that you are making them less flexible, which is where they should shine. Most people will tell you to never do away with your Bolter, and just take Combi Weapons.

This is true. The one possible exception would be the heavy flamer though. You tend to be in close range anyway, and odds are, it will work vs. whatever you are shooting, no mater what special ammo you are using. Plus the wall of fire will be nice when people charge you to make the shooting stop.

If its for fun then go with the LotD but if its in anyway competitive sternguard are a better choice, people read too much into the 3++ as its not ap3 or better weapons that kill most power armoured dudes its the sheer volume of ap5+ shots that take them down

 Nevelon wrote:

 Alkasyn wrote:

milo wrote:
So, I've just skimmed the replies, but I think I'm sensing a SLIGHT preference for the Sternguard. Are LotD just overpriced for what you get?

Anyone know a cheap place to find a bunch of Drop Pods? I do think I may go back to that store and get some of the LotD, if only for the Heavy Flamer bitz.

Any thoughts on Heavy Flamers/Multimeltas for the Sternguard?

Usually, sacrificing a bolter on a sternguard veteran for a Heavy Flamer or other Heavy weapon means that you are making them less flexible, which is where they should shine. Most people will tell you to never do away with your Bolter, and just take Combi Weapons.

This is true. The one possible exception would be the heavy flamer though. You tend to be in close range anyway, and odds are, it will work vs. whatever you are shooting, no mater what special ammo you are using. Plus the wall of fire will be nice when people charge you to make the shooting stop.

....and if he's with Vulken.....who's your babies butter milk biscuit now?!?!

Anyone else notice how LOTD are described as having basically AP3 bolters in the current fluff? Mat Ward appears to have made us pay for it without listing it in the unit entry They are overpriced, for sure.
I save my LOTD for apoc games where their invulnerable save is more likely to shine.

Sternguard FTW!!! And you know what is better than a unit of Sternguards in a Drop Pod??

2 units of Sternguard in Drop Pods

The Sternguard ammo is probably my favorite marine trick. I wish the game had more units with schemes like special ammo.

Take sternguard and max out on combi weapons. Combi meltas always worked well for me. Vulkan still gives you the re-roll on them. Also, the combi weapons allow you to keep the special ammo which is kind of the whole point of the sternguard in the first place, in my opinion.