Daemon Rumors: New Daemon Transport?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**thisisnotpancho**

Seeing the latest rumors being put up on BOLS and Faeit212, it seems that khorne might be getting a transport. Question is, will this help Khorne units to be actually better than they are now? I mean, i can see bloodletters, bloodcrushers (possibly, if they can use the transport), and maybe flesh hounds being a lot more survivable then they are now. But honestly with the power of flamers/screamers, i don't see a place for khorne units in competitive scenes, even if they are now more survivable.

So the ultimate question of this is, will this transport aid the daemons? It kinda seems pointless to me, as khorne doesn't seem to be that amazing to benefit much from a transport. But i really would like to hear people's opinion on this subject.

**Experiment 626**

thisisnotpancho wrote:
Seeing the latest rumors being put up on BOLS and Faeit212, it seems that khorne might be getting a transport. Question is, will this help Khorne units to be actually better than they are now? I mean, i can see bloodletters, bloodcrushers (possibly, if they can use the transport), and maybe flesh hounds being a lot more survivable then they are now. But honestly with the power of flamers/screamers, i don't see a place for khorne units in competitive scenes, even if they are now more survivable.

So the ultimate question of this is, will this transport aid the daemons? It kinda seems pointless to me, as khorne doesn't seem to be that amazing to benefit much from a transport. But i really would like to hear people's opinion on this subject.

As a Daemon player, I don't particularly like the idea of getting a transport to begin with - that's the reason why get our awsome army-wide Deep Strike mechanic!

I'd like to think that GW will keep our unique flavour instead of making us a boring, streamlined army.
And one of the biggest parts of that uniqueness is that in a similar vien to Tyranids, we're a footslogging army that instead of massed transports uses plenty of cavalry, jump infantry & flying options to get to grips with our prey.

We don't need transports - leave that to the scardy-pants fleshlings to hide in their mehtal bwakes! We'll just continue to show-up where you least expect it and wreck utter havoc as the true Children of Chaos we are!

**blood reaper**

A Khorne assault transport would be interesting, but unless Bloodletters are boasted in the new book, I'll have no interest in using them.

**Kaldor**

Honestly, I expect Daemons to lose their army wide deepstrike. I think they'll get something like a Warp Portal they can use to emerge from, and I think every unit will have the ability to deepstrike, but I also think they'll have to abide by the same 'must deploy half your force' and 'if no models are on the table at the end of the turn, you lose' rules that everyone else does. This will make it much easier to balance their units, mitigate their vulnerability to Warp Quake, and generally make for a better game.

**Experiment 626**

Kaldor wrote:
Honestly, I expect Daemons to lose their army wide deepstrike. I think they'll get something like a Warp Portal they can use to emerge from, and I think every unit will have the ability to deepstrike, but I also think they'll have to abide by the same 'must deploy half your force' and 'if no models are on the table at the end of the turn, you lose' rules that everyone else does. This will make it much easier to balance their units, mitigate their vulnerability to Warp Quake, and generally make for a better game.

We damn well better not lose our deployment mechanic! It's what helps keep us unique instead of being just another typical meched-up force.

And we still follow the rules since half our force does deploy on-table. It simply happens Turn 1 instead of during deployment. But even we still only get to keep 50% of our army in reserves, just like everyone else.
If anything, we should;
a) lose the f

ing bull

rolling for prefered wave nonsense!!!
b) maybe change our Deep Strike deployment to happen during the deployment phase OR give Daemons a special rule to 'Daemonic Assault' that always gives us the first turn.

Look at that, GK donkeycaves can no longer Warp Quake us into oblivion AND we're not unfairly shoehorned into being just another typical mech-fest army.

Keeping our idenity is vital. I know for myself, and a number of other Daemon players as well, what drew us to the army was it's uniqueness and vastly different playstyle. If I really wanted to be just another 'typical' 40k army with transports and tanks, I'd have played something like Chaos Marines or Orks or Eldar or somesuch.

Overall our current Codex is pretty well balanced and is solidly mid-tier.
Flamer/Screamer spam is problematic, just like every other powergamey spam army. But overall, Daemons are not weak and can build a fair variety of lists.

It's simply gotten a bit stale after 5-6 years or so!

**timetowaste85**

Daemons have a vehicle already: it's called the sky shield landing platform.

**Kaldor**

Experiment 626 wrote:
We damn well better not lose our deployment mechanic! It's what helps keep us unique instead of being just another typical meched-up force.

I also have a Daemon army, and I'd strongly disagree that it's the deployment method that keeps the army unique. I think it's a hindrance more than anything, and the army would gain a lot from having a more normal deployment method.

**blood reaper**

Kaldor wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
We damn well better not lose our deployment mechanic! It's what helps keep us unique instead of being just another typical meched-up force.

I also have a Daemon army, and I'd strongly disagree that it's the deployment method that keeps the army unique. I think it's a hindrance more than anything, and the army would gain a lot from having a more normal deployment method.

I'd be fine with it if we had better saves, otherwise Bloodletters would be rendered useless. All I want is a 4+, rage and hatred GW, that's all I want.

Horrors also need a BS boast or a point decrease.

**Experiment 626**

Kaldor wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
We damn well better not lose our deployment mechanic! It's what helps keep us unique instead of being just another typical meched-up force.

I also have a Daemon army, and I'd strongly disagree that it's the deployment method that keeps the army unique. I think it's a hindrance more than anything, and the army would gain a lot from having a more normal deployment method.

Then you and I completely disagree.

I find that the Deep Strike deployment works wonderfully in allowing us a far more aggressive, in-your-face playstyle right from the word 'GO!'
Not everyone is cut out for such a playstyle though, and it takes ALOT! of trial and error & practice to get good at such a deployment.

Plus, unlike Tyranids who get dirt cheap hordes to soak-up enemy fire, our units are costly because well, Daemons are scary warp-monsters with all kinds of bad@$$ 'magical' properties. If we got things like 6-8pts/model Troops hordes, then sure, losing Deep Strike would be viable.
Unfortunately, Daemons would be broken if we got 6-8pts/model troops! So, instead of having to footslog 18" - 24" or more, we get to show up wherever we damn well please! It's not like we get some kind of unfair 'free pass' to go happily disembowling our way through opponents - anyone still has at least 1 turn to react and prepare for the onslaught.

The Deep Strike deployment is also very flavourful for Daemons since they have to break through from the warp into the material universe. Normal deployment would be pretty unfluffy actually.

**Kaldor**

Experiment 626 wrote:
I find that the Deep Strike deployment works wonderfully in allowing us a far more aggressive, in-your-face playstyle right from the word 'GO!'
Not everyone is cut out for such a playstyle though, and it takes ALOT! of trial and error & practice to get good at such a deployment.

I used to play several all-reserve armies in 5th, so my distaste doesn't come from not being able to do it myself.

I feel like it's very hard to get the cost for a unit like Flamers right, when you can't count on their deployment. If they deploy too far away they're toast. If they deploy right up in your grill, they'll wreck face. So how do you cost them? Cheap because they're fragile, or expensive because they're powerful? Forcing a regular deployment doesn't completely eliminate that problem, but it helps. Further, it helps other players and doesn't make Daemons so much of a wild card in terms of deployment. By which I mean that careful deployment and taking advantage of fire lines and cover are important parts of the game that Daemons (and therefore anyone they're playing against) don't utilise. To be clear, I wouldn't want them to lose deepstrike, I think every unit should retain the ability to deepstrike, but the army should also be required to deploy normally, in a deployment zone, with at least half their units.

Now this throws all sorts of problems into the mix with the ability of the Daemons to cross the board and get stuck in, but I think I'd rather see creative ways to solve that problem (I don't think transports are necessary) than see Daemons keep the same deployment method.

The Deep Strike deployment is also very flavourful for Daemons since they have to break through from the warp into the material universe. Normal deployment would be pretty unfluffy actually.

I always thought it would be more fluffy if they had to enter the table through a Warp Portal, rather than just appearing.

**Necroshea**

I'm curious to how they could even do a transport. Perhaps a giant worm like thing that digests things faster than they can normally move. Embark one turn, select a location 12" away, roll scatter, ignore terrain, disembark, or something to that effect.

It certainly would be silly to have daemons riding around in vehicles one would think

**Tiarna Fuilteach**

I could see this new khorne transport just being gw releasing a model for khorne chariots like they did for slaanesh

**-Loki-**

Necroshea wrote:
I'm curious to how they could even do a transport. Perhaps a giant worm like thing that digests things faster than they can normally move. Embark one turn, select a location 12" away, roll scatter, ignore terrain, disembark, or something to that effect.

It certainly would be silly to have daemons riding around in vehicles one would think

Sensible speculation on Warseer was a large Chariot, ala the Exalted Slaanesh chariot. Which would work - daemons already have deep striking chariots, and have had them since 4th edition (albeit without models). Daemons also have a deep striking vehicle already, so it hardly indicates a change of deployment type.

**timetowaste85**

Flamers were fairly priced at 35, borderline busted at 2/3 that cost as they are now. When 5th first hit, my flamers were the #1 hated unit in my LGS. If I took them there now, I'd be thrown out (if I hadn't already chosen to leave and never look back).

I also want deep strike to stay. Being able to buy portals to place on the table at 50pts each, able to control DSing with an AV value...well, well, well...

**Experiment 626**

Kaldor wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
I find that the Deep Strike deployment works wonderfully in allowing us a far more aggressive, in-your-face playstyle right from the word 'GO!'
Not everyone is cut out for such a playstyle though, and it takes ALOT! of trial and error & practice to get good at such a deployment.

I used to play several all-reserve armies in 5th, so my distaste doesn't come from not being able to do it myself.

I feel like it's very hard to get the cost for a unit like Flamers right, when you can't count on their deployment. If they deploy too far away they're toast. If they deploy right up in your grill, they'll wreck face. So how do you cost them? Cheap because they're fragile, or expensive because they're powerful? Forcing a regular deployment doesn't completely eliminate that problem, but it helps. Further, it helps other players and doesn't make Daemons so much of a wild card in terms of deployment. By which I mean that careful deployment and taking advantage of fire lines and cover are important parts of the game that Daemons (and therefore anyone they're playing against) don't utilise. To be clear, I wouldn't want them to lose deepstrike, I think every unit should retain the ability to deepstrike, but the army should also be required to deploy normally, in a deployment zone, with at least half their units.

Now this throws all sorts of problems into the mix with the ability of the Daemons to cross the board and get stuck in, but I think I'd rather see creative ways to solve that problem (I don't think transports are necessary) than see Daemons keep the same deployment method.

Flamers are actually far more adaptable than most think.
a) Being 'Jump Infatry' gives them added utility as they can Deep Strike further away from a strong defensive position instead of always risking the 'epic alpha-strike' effect. You can drop them behind cover and/or out of sight and then hop them forwards to pick on a choice enemy unit that might have come after a different unit.
b) Flamers get BS4 and the basic Tzeentchian Warpfire ability, so in reality, they're also solid firefight units with insane range, being able to bounce about and threaten anything within 36".
Sure Warpfire is only ap4, but with 3 shots per model, they'll still win protracted firefights against Marines.

So Flamers aren't in any way a 'glass cannon' as most seem to think. Before at 35pts they were expensive and could be blown away pretty quickly, hence why most every Daemon player fielded them in small 3-4 gribbly units and just suicided them. Their new rules simply need to have the Eternal Warrior trait removed and they'd be fine.
Forcing them to deploy normally doesn't do much beyond adding a decent nerf that would be overkill if indeed Daemons do lose their army-wide Eternal Warrior.

The first wave Deep Striking in does not negate the use of tactical terrain or deployment either... Opponents actually get a slight advantage here since they'll full control of the board. Since terrain is placed first, an opponent can set-up choke points and then freely take advantage of them since the Daemons have no way to deploy first.
When daemons go second, opponents have a free turn to move about and claim cover, set-up supportive defensive positions and generally shore-up any weaknesses from their initial deployment.

Kaldor wrote:
The Deep Strike deployment is also very flavourful for Daemons since they have to break through from the warp into the material universe. Normal deployment would be pretty unfluffy actually.

I always thought it would be more fluffy if they had to enter the table through a Warp Portal, rather than just appearing.

Warp Portals generally involve summoning rites, meaning some mortal fool/s have helped conjured the Daemons into existance weather through time-consuming ritual, blood sacrifice, magick spells, etc... in order to open a Chaos Gate.
Only the most powerful daemonic entities are capable of opening a warp portal from their own side, since most are covered in protective wards to keep the door firmly shut.

Daemonic Assault is ment to represent where the veil between realities has become thin or broken wide open and a large host of daemonic entities are then free to run amok.
Which can easily happen when conflict/strife erupts on a world that has been victimised in the past/is close to a warp storm, or there is cult-based activities, or a powerful psyker did it, or perhaps a sacred site is unknowingly distrubed/ruined and ancient wards of binding & protection have been destroyed, etc...

**Tiarna Fuilteach**

It looks like march is when they'll be hitting now right?

**Experiment 626**

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
It looks like march is when they'll be hitting now right?

Just wait till Jan25/26 and then we'll know for sure if Daemons are coming...

**undertow**

Kaldor wrote:
Honestly, I expect Daemons to lose their army wide deepstrike. I think they'll get something like a Warp Portal they can use to emerge from, and I think every unit will have the ability to deepstrike, but I also think they'll have to abide by the same 'must deploy half your force' and 'if no models are on the table at the end of the turn, you lose' rules that everyone else does. This will make it much easier to balance their units, mitigate their vulnerability to Warp Quake, and generally make for a better game.

Honestly, I'd rather see Daemons lose army-wide Eternal Warrior than lose all Deep Strike. I really don't want my army to deploy like all the others.

**clively**

The ONLY two changes to Daemons I really want to see is the ability to assault from the deep strike deployment and the ability to bring your entire army in on your turn 1. I'd be good even if the assault option is only available to regular reserves (ie: coming in on turn 2+).

Bloodletters / Daemonettes absolutely need this and it would work with existing fluff.

Regarding a transport option: Daemons don't need it and I don't see how that works in fluff unless they decide to retconn just about every book written. Can you imagine a daemonette driving a tank? Meh. Maybe some more flying MC options or what not if they feel the need to put out some higher priced models. Either way, Daemons should simply appear out of the warp and beat you over the head.

**Necroshea**

clively wrote:
The ONLY two changes to Daemons I really want to see is the ability to assault from the deep strike deployment and the ability to bring your entire army in on your turn 1. I'd be good even if the assault option is only available to regular reserves (ie: coming in on turn 2+).

Bloodletters / Daemonettes absolutely need this and it would work with existing fluff.

Regarding a transport option: Daemons don't need it and I don't see how that works in fluff unless they decide to retconn just about every book written. Can you imagine a daemonette driving a tank? Meh. Maybe some more flying MC options or what not if they feel the need to put out some higher priced models. Either way, Daemons should simply appear out of the warp and beat you over the head.

I'd rather see those units become cheap enough to spam instead of having the ability to instantly tie up and probably mangle anything on the board in the first turn of the game.

**Experiment 626**

clively wrote:
The ONLY two changes to Daemons I really want to see is the ability to assault from the deep strike deployment and the ability to bring your entire army in on your turn 1. I'd be good even if the assault option is only available to regular reserves (ie: coming in on turn 2+).

Bloodletters / Daemonettes absolutely need this and it would work with existing fluff.

Regarding a transport option: Daemons don't need it and I don't see how that works in fluff unless they decide to retconn just about every book written. Can you imagine a daemonette driving a tank? Meh. Maybe some more flying MC options or what not if they feel the need to put out some higher priced models. Either way, Daemons should simply appear out of the warp and beat you over the head.

That would easily make Daemons insanely broken.

Thanks, but no-thanks. I've been daemonized enough by the local Fantasy community just for my choice of army, I don't need to have the same happen to me with the 40k community!

If anything, the assault from deep strike should be given to Chaos Furies alongside the Hit-and-Run rule to represent just how cowardly they are. Furies swoop in, kill some poor, unsuspecting innocents and then fly off before any real retaliation can be brought to bear, before finding a new isolated target/prey.
And you know what those rules would do? It would make Furies f ing playable for a once!!!

Daemonettes or Bloodletters for example would simply wreck face without effort if they worked like they did back in the 3.5 CSM codex. And guess what, Bloodletters were broken in those days!

Furies on the other hand have always sucked hardcore in 40k. Giving them back the old assault from deep strike would make them finally worth their stupidly high pts cost.

**kronk**

I'd like the ability to choose to either deepstrike everything or not.

I'm building a CSM army now and looking at some Daemons allies, and I am rather turned off by having to deepstrike all of them every time I use them.