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Need help on using berzerkers. I am a huge khorne fan, in 5th edition I bought around 30 berzerkers, and also made some khorne terminators with dual LC. Now that I am finally finishing my army idk how to play it. I played a game about 2 weeks back with a list kinda like this:
Kharn
15 marines 2 meltas, champ with power sword, 15 CC weapons, MoK
2x 10 berzerkers in rhino, champ with PF, IoW
4 termi dual LC, land raider (kharn rode with these)
Defiler
Predator with las cannon

I played imp guard and got the defi destroyed first turn, and a rhino immobilized. Second turn my second turn immobilized my second rhino took to HP off my land raider. 3rd turn LR was destroyed and one group of berzerkers gone along with a huge chunk of the termis. My marines shot up some guardsmen but got shot back at 4th turn killing a good bit.

As you see 4th turn and my whole list was almost wiped out. I feel like there has got to e a better way to use berzerkers than in rhinos. Like I said I really like having a khorne/crimson slaughter army however it seems like its pointless to make a assault themed army. I have seen ideas on different tactics to use berzerkers with but then another person says that way works terribly. I was thinking a group of 20 and marching/running them forward. Is this the only way to use my favorite unit in the game? Do allies make a difference with these guys I was going to do a blood pact allied force thinking the extra shooting would help the. Out some.

Any helpful tactics for CC terminators and Khorne berzerkers would be great. I feel like I wasted my money on this army now and it kinda sucks.

I usually put a unit of berserkers in a land raider with kharne and a lord with axe of blind fury and put a second unit in a rhino which I keep very close behind the land raider to keep it out of line of sight. On the first turn I move them as far forward as they will go and pop smoke. On the second turn I move them 6" forward, disembark kharn and friends from the land raider (only if I can charge, otherwise repeat turn 1 actions) and disemberk the unit from the rhino, keeping them behind the land raider as they can't charge this turn.

If I include termies, I either walk them or deep strike depending on how I feel at the time. I also use khornate daemons as allies which causes a distraction with half of them turning up really close turn one.

Thats a TOUGH match up for a khorne list which, tbh isnt gonna be strong this ed at all. Mostly because of the problem of delivering your army. A few thoughts that might help:

Hide your rhino/s behind your LR to avoid insta-loosing your first blood... and then do what youve gotta do to give the LR cover (if all else fails use the rhino for LR cover). If you conga line the vehicles you can save vehicles smoke launchers for different turns but if its close or if in doubt use em early.

If your happy using rhinos id take as many as you can (3 in this case) have an empty rhino from the 15 man csm squad following your BZ rhino- if it dies they can hop in the other one. Multiple rhinos can come in handy in other ways like sniping chars or blocking lanes. This ed you have to get out of the rhino the turn before and hide behind it... as best you can...

Use cover... Lots and lots of cover... force them to come to you as much as you can to reduce the distance or risk of getting kited. If you have to hide behind a wall with your whole army for 5 turns do it!

Use your csm squad to set up counter assaults for your zerkers if you can. Id think about giving them icon of vengeance instead of the iow and even thinking of dropping the extra ccw for a bolter, these guys arent gonna footslog across the board and then get an assault, there gonna get assaulted- gear them to overwatch and do damage from midfield. If you can bump the nos up any higher do it- 15 is a little thin for footslog imo.

Id put a power sword on the zerker champ- you have to accept the challenge, your just gonna get sniped out at initiative, you may as well trade. If your worried about mech throw meltabombs on him but really i wouldnt expect him to hang around to long once the chopping starts.

I dont wanna tell you to rethink your list because it sounds like youve spent some time working hard on the models but i cant resist suggesting a squad of oblits with mon (paint em red call them khorne but they'll offer your list so much). You can deploy them up the back so they force your opponent to come to you to deal with em (and controlling their mobility a bit) or ds em in behind enemy lines a huge improvement for your mobility/threat ability or ds em inbetween your armies as bait- they come foward to deal with the oblits you get a nice counter assault.

Sometimes 4 LC termies + Kharn wont be the best option but its cool and FUN you just might wanna test some variations sometime. I dont have a dex on me atm but a k lord on a jug witht he axe of fury is 175 ish. He can be completely hidden behind a landraider and DEVASTATING in cc and could b a nice alternative to Kharn that might offer some maneuverability or unlock a warlord trait that Kharn doesnt have access to- im thinking infiltrate? Dont underestimate deepstriking the termies- not all the time but if you made a few little changes they could be a potential termicide squad (in certain situations- like the oblits). You just need to be a little creative with your units to encourage the opponent to move where you need him to be so they cant exploit yoru limited mobility so hardcore.

Night fighting is your very good friend.

I think defilers are SO overpriced and really just a liability with their 3hps now which makes me sad but i guess GW had to get us to buy their fancy new models somehow...

Shootie armies, mech, flyers, even high initiative melee armies are gonna be tough. You wont win to many tournaments but it can definitely be a great list for those friendly games- just remember- even if your 10 points down khorne fights to the last man, sometimes its just about chopping when the war is clearly lost . Goodluck let us know how it goes!

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I will be trying out different things for them. I really like the khorne champion idea. Would he work well in a group of spawn? Also what other units are really threatening other than obliterates? How about Hell brutes, and heldrakes? I was planning on adding a heldrake next so of it would be a good way to pull attention of the Berzerks I would be killing two birds with one stone.

I just dislike the obliterator models... A lot. But will use them if hell brutes won't do the trick.

Also would forge fiends do the trick for distractions?

I know Kharn is popular and all but has anyone tried out a Khorne Lord with Axe of Blind Fury, Juggernaut, Sigil, Veteran?

Seems like a T5, 4W, S6, I5, 5+D6A 4++ space marine hating combat monster would be worth his 160 points.

Plus any excuse to use this model really http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2730287a_99810201004_WoCKhorneJuggerCFC02_873x627.jpg

coganaut wrote:
Any helpful tactics for CC terminators and Khorne berzerkers would be great. I feel like I wasted my money on this army now and it kinda sucks.

I'm not going to lie to you, bezerkers are sub-optimal now. The changes to 6th edition have made rhinos just less effective. If your going to run them, you need to stick them in a land raider.

Kharn works best when placed in front of a big squad of bullet shields...err...cultists. Just 'look out sir' any incoming shots, and run him across the board to beat in some face. He makes the entire cultist squad fearless. As an added bonus, Kharn can wreck face in challanges, or you can send the cultist chosen to get chewed up.

Competitve CSM armies also need to use some of the new units and previously useless old ones. Helldrakes are f'ing awesome at killing MEQ. Havocs with autocannons...yes please! Any time your codex is updated, you will need to spend some money to make it work.

Finally, if you want to just wreck face, ally in daemons. Heck, play daemons and ally in your CSM! Bloodcrushers + Fateweaver is still powerful. Flamers/Screamers as allies will cause your opponents marines to cry themselves to sleep at night.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nitros14 wrote:
I know Kharn is popular and all but has anyone tried out a Khorne Lord with Axe of Blind Fury, Juggernaut, Sigil, Veteran?

Not yet, but I just love the idea of a Khorne lord on a Jugg. I want to run it with a squad of Khorne bikes.

I would ds some termis with combi weapons to cause chaos behind enemy lines thus distracting a less experienced opponent from the real threat

 Nitros14 wrote:
I know Kharn is popular and all but has anyone tried out a Khorne Lord with Axe of Blind Fury, Juggernaut, Sigil, Veteran?

Seems like a T5, 4W, S6, I5, 5+D6A 4++ space marine hating combat monster would be worth his 160 points.

Plus any excuse to use this model really http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2730287a_99810201004_WoCKhorneJuggerCFC02_873x627.jpg

Where can you get this model from?

Welcome to 6th edition. When I roll out my guard and see a CC oriented opponent it's a free win. CC just isn't what it used to be, you're going to be hard pressed to use a rhino-rush army that's out of date now, especially as the Chaos codex isn't fantastic.

The only way I can see berzerkers working is by having them as a threat, with kharn, in the LR. Your opponent will want to take that LR down asap. Let the terminators deep strike and provide a back-field threat, while the LR moves up.
They'll need to be well supported by a shooting heavy army though. Something to cripple your opponent's fire-power before he can really bring it to bear on your LR.

Even then, once the squad is in CC, it'll probably blow through whatever it charged at, meaning the rest of the guns can open up on Kharn and the berzerkers nicely in the open. This is more apparent when it's easy for your opponent to throw a sacrificial unit in the way of Kharn (think a PCS worth around 40pts). I'd really advise limiting the CC in your army, it's not competitive.

Ithani wrote:

I think defilers are SO overpriced and really just a liability with their 3hps now which makes me sad but i guess GW had to get us to buy their fancy new models somehow...

They have 4HP and It will not die. But only a 5++ to save them from lucky pens.

I'm not going to lie to you, bezerkers are sub-optimal now. The changes to 6th edition have made rhinos just less effective. If your going to run them, you need to stick them in a land raider.

I would never put zerkers in a lr- 240 points + the 240 (ish) for the zerks, i dont seem them as making those points back at all. Id rather footslog them than to sink 1/4-1/3 of the list into them. Rhinos can work this edition- there not so good as last but they add valuable mobility- they have obvious drawbacks but i think we will see more of them in a few months when people stop comparing them to 5e and use them for what they are.

jugg lord- attacks at i5 with ap2 thats pretty rare methinks these days. run with unmarked spawn (k mark just gives counter attack... meh imo) or k bikes. You can even just walk him up with the blob squad and break off them when you get close ish to your opp.

Heldrakes as others have said are amazing and would compliment your list. i think just 1 does the job fine but i guess it depends on the size of your games.

soz wango- but still i havent seen any reports with defilers performing well this edition and am still not convinced.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
If Kharn was in the LR i guess the bz could go in too... thats one expensive box that the opponent will have 3 turns to get ready to recieve- its not gonan surprise anyone but it does have a chance of getting its 600pts back.

 Solomongrundy wrote:

 Nitros14 wrote:
I know Kharn is popular and all but has anyone tried out a Khorne Lord with Axe of Blind Fury, Juggernaut, Sigil, Veteran?

Seems like a T5, 4W, S6, I5, 5+D6A 4++ space marine hating combat monster would be worth his 160 points.

Plus any excuse to use this model really http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2730287a_99810201004_WoCKhorneJuggerCFC02_873x627.jpg

Where can you get this model from?

Warriors of Chaos Warhammer Fantasy range.