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So my first reaction to the new DA book were how great a lot of the price adjustments for the standard (cross marine codex) units. I am hoping that these prices translate to future codexes as a baseline.

Some of the stuff I noticed:
-Tactical squads don't have to take "veteran" sergeants for the price hike, specials/heavies can be taken at 5 guys and none of them are free. Seems like you can more easily customize them to what you want without having to do wonky stuff with combat squads. This also reduces the cost of comparable squads from Codex:SM by 5 points, more if you skip some options.
-Whirlwinds are 20pts cheaper
-Preds base cost went up 15pts, but with options stayed roughly the same
-Vindis are 10 points more
-Venerable got 35pts cheaper
-Dreads are 5 points less
-Redeemers are 5 points more
-Dev squads are now very reasonable (~30 points cheaper)
-Assault squads are ~25pts cheaper
-TH/SS upgrade is +5points/model (and termies are a bit more expensive on the whole, but this could just be a DA thing)

I am really hoping this becomes the baseline for all the marine 'dexes, seems much more flexible/balanced on the whole.

Anyone else excited about the possibilities for the future?

I'm excited about seeing lascannons in the game again, especially on Devs. The previous cost of ~35 points for one gun was nuts. I was happy to see the price drop in the CSM codex.

Let's see how consistent they are with the basic points and option points, and for how long.

Remember when Space Marines cost 15 points and didn't come with frag or krak grenades? Black Templars are still paying a premium for those now when a Chaos Marine is 13 points and has both grenades for free...

 kronk wrote:
Let's see how consistent they are with the basic points and option points, and for how long.

Remember when Space Marines cost 15 points and didn't come with frag or krak grenades? Black Templars are still paying a premium for those now when a Chaos Marine is 13 points and has both grenades for free...

Exactly what I was going to bring up. Everyone I play with at one point decided it would be fun to give BT Initiates both grenades included in their cost. So far I haven't taken them up on it (BTs need no concessions!), but as new codecies come out it is a point of annoyance for me.

I wish GW would just errata point costs. It would make using on older codex much more bearable.

In any case, is there any rumours on the possible release time of a new vanilla SM book?

Now I'm a DA player so I may be a bit biased, but I really hope we don't see this across the rest of the SM codexes. Our 4th Ed codex became the C:SM 5th Ed codex, only you got more options. I'd really like the DA codex to stay DA with some separation from the baseline

Actually considering some things, it might be specific to DA.

Terminators now have split fire and twinlinked shooting on drop. This is likely going to stay specific to DA.

I want to say the plasma cannons might, but then again they ended up in 5th edition C:SM's hands as well.

Ravenwing got far better, hopefully the biker squads in C:SM won't change to that.

 Crimson wrote:
I wish GW would just errata point costs. It would make using on older codex much more bearable.

In any case, is there any rumours on the possible release time of a new vanilla SM book?

After BT, SoB, and Tau if GW gets new management and starts doing business correctly.

There are going to be some things that stay DA only.

The Deathwing Asault rule is a clear example, and I'm half tempted to get a drop pod just to drop in a devastator squad with multi-meltas to pop vehicles before attacking with the death wings.

One thing I've noticed, that is probably going to stay DA Only, is our assault squads can't take meltaguns, which is a mainstay of BAs.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I wish GW would just errata point costs. It would make using on older codex much more bearable.

In any case, is there any rumours on the possible release time of a new vanilla SM book?

After BT, SoB, and Tau if GW gets new management and starts doing business correctly.

Bahahaahahahahahahahahaha

oh that was good.

Business, correctly and GW in the same sentence without a negative qualifier, so quaint.

More on topic, last time around vanilla marines got all the perks introduced to Dark Angels, minus, of course, Deathwing and Ravenwing, in their following codex, I'd imagine much the same will occur.

andystache wrote:
Now I'm a DA player so I may be a bit biased, but I really hope we don't see this across the rest of the SM codexes. Our 4th Ed codex became the C:SM 5th Ed codex, only you got more options. I'd really like the DA codex to stay DA with some separation from the baseline

As a long time DA player, I can safely say that I want to see our pricing structure become the standard. Things that were too expensive went down in price, things that were too cheap went up. The problem with the 4E DA Codex and the 5E SM Codex was more an issue of them getting massive price drops because GW used the Dark Angels codex to determine if they got the pricing right. Turns out they were out by quite a bit on most standard units. So the SM codex was much better at running most list types, they also got a ton of new options (Sternguard, Vanguard, new vehicle variants, etc.).

If marines get our price adjustments but keep their own unique features (vehicle variants, elite units, special characters, Storm Talon, etc.) then GW may finally be able to break out of the rut of variant marine armies either being Vanilla+ or Vanilla (but overspecialized). There will be some overlap of course, but by giving each of them (BA, DA, BT, SW, GK and Vanilla) their own unique units, they need not worry about the troubles they've been dealing with in the past. But if pricing is inconsistent between the codices then things will shift toward one being better than the others, especially in the ones where core units are largely shared (BA, DA and Vanilla).

So I hope the basic pricing structure becomes a thing for all marines. I think GW got pretty close to the mark this time. Now they just have to not muck it up (HA!).

I agree with what Ronin is saying. But I'd like to see Codex Marines have to take 10 to unlock specials, and I'd like to see a few things stay cheaper for DA and some things (Razorbacks) stay cheaper for SM. Let each dex be a little unique.

Meh, unique point costs for no reason is a bad idea. If things cost different amounts then it should be because they are more/less effective, not because things should be unique. Dark Angels just got shot full of a decade's worth of unique units we missed out on in 3rd Edition and 4th Edition. Between Deathwing Knights, proper RW/DW Command squads, Black Knights, the new speeders and the flyers alongside pieces of unique wargear (Sacred Standards, Chapter Relics, etc.) and all of the newly minted special rules... Well, we're pretty damn unique now.

GW can still bugger it all up by giving away a lot of it, but they've been pretty disciplined so far (witness how all the SM flyers have stayed put!) and I am hoping for the best. We didn't get any siege-dreads or PA veterans (that aren't bare bones) as is sensible for our Chapter. Now we can just hope that when the next marine codex drops we don't see Nephelim, Stormraves, extra-elite Terminators (of either the T5 or 2W variety) or any other chapter-specific junk. GW are finally making vanilla something other than, err, vanilla. They are giving it its own flavour... like, , umm French Vanilla? Yeah!

Basically if GW want to curb the cries of "why do those blokes even have a codex?" from the marine-haters and "why does X get my chapters junk?" from the marine-players; then the important bits is not whether a Rhino costs five points extra, or whether special weapons are free in tactical squads. It is whether the actual options in the codex perform in unique ways on the table. So long as a Deathwing Assault feels different than a Crimson Fists SternPod Assault I will be a happy camper. But, as with the last DA and Vanilla codices, only time will tell.

I'd like to see codex marine Tacs go to 15pts each, Scouts to 12. Pricing stays the same. Can only unlock weapons at 10pts.

Make Dreads 100pts, to match Hellbrutes / DA dreads.

Terminators stay the same, with TH/SS costing +5ppm. Don't get Split Fire or Inner Circle, so it's fair.

Lower the price on Vanguard Vets, Line devastators up to the DA version, Assault Marines the same.

Maybe line the tanks up the same.

Really, all the Vanilla Marine Codex needs is a few point drops and some flavour. It doesn't need anything fancy like Deathwing or Ravenwing.

I'd like the Landspeeder costs too. 75pts for a Typhoon Speeder gets me all hot and bothered. I almost switched to Dark Angels just for that.

Tacticals really ought to be more flexible now, a bit like BT-style I suppose.

Cheaper Whirlwind is nice, I should've bought one when I got a lot of stuff at discount. Ah well. Not that it's still a super-fantastic unit, but still it's a pie plate, and I like pie plates And at 65(?) points it's not overly expensive anymore.

Did Assaults really get that much cheaper though? If so, nice one, because I really like Assault marines. Problem usually being finding leftover Fast Attack slots, especially in case of my Templars with expensive Assault marines and cheap Typhoons.

Cheaper devastators is great, finally makes it possible to actually use them without gimping yourself.

Too bad about the Predator price hike though.

tvih wrote:

Too bad about the Predator price hike though.

Depends how you field them. Dakka preds went up +10, but auto/Las went down -5. With the changes to the base/upgrade costs, if you fielded cheap ones before, they got more expensive, but if you fielded the expensive ones, they got cheaper.

With the price drop on whirlwinds, you might see those in lists that were previously using dakka preds.