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So I'm just about ready to start a new army. Currently play Black Templars, a Marine scout force, Tyranids, Orks, and a smallish Necrons force that my son has thieved.

I'm leaning toward Tau or Eldar, and I'm kicking around the idea of limiting myself to a 500-750ish army size and getting both, allying the two for larger games. Any thoughts? I haven't played against either army since 3rd edition, so I'm not up to speed on the synergies or lack thereof.

I'd probably start with the Tau battleforce, and flesh out a starter force from there with Broadsides and Crisis Suits, though I could be persuaded to go another route.

Any help would be appreciated!

Darrett wrote:
So I'm just about ready to start a new army. Currently play Black Templars, a Marine scout force, Tyranids, Orks, and a smallish Necrons force that my son has thieved.

I'm leaning toward Tau or Eldar, and I'm kicking around the idea of limiting myself to a 500-750ish army size and getting both, allying the two for larger games. Any thoughts? I haven't played against either army since 3rd edition, so I'm not up to speed on the synergies or lack thereof.

I'd probably start with the Tau battleforce, and flesh out a starter force from there with Broadsides and Crisis Suits, though I could be persuaded to go another route.

Any help would be appreciated!

I don't know Eldar, but I do know Tau.

Normally I'd say go ahead and get the battleforce, if it wasn't for the fact that it includes kroot. You won't use them, so that negates any cost savings of buying the battleforce.

Start by getting yourself two units of firewarriors, and some crisis suits. For the point cost, Hammerheads are a slighty better choice then Broadsides in the current meta, since disruption pods give them shrouded, and they can fire a template or solid shot.

Are you playing mechdar or footdar? If you are playing Mechdar/mech tau, I suggest going with jetbikes to support your teams, as well as war walkers to help your flanking. Dont upgrade your fire warriors beyond blacksun filter. Also, remember that if you put blacksun on your commander, you can use him to give a eldar unit blacksun. The most competitive crisis suit builds at this time are Twin linked rockets, plasma and rocket w/ multitracker, and plasma and melta w/ multitracker.

With eldar decide whether you want footdar or mechdar.
The next thing is to decide what kind of heavy support slots you want:

Wraithlord: Great toughness usually needed for anti-tank so bright lance and EML.
War walkers: The popular choice nowadays... Great for overwhelming S6 firepower. Cheap shuricannons or pricey scatter lasers. This is the most common spam.
Dark reapers: Squishy but good damage output. Usually reserved for footdar and especially if you want to go with a Biel Tann aspect army.
Falcon: Good anti-tank plus the ability to transport a small squad - usually DA.
Fire Prism: The debate on their usefulness rages. Some swear by them. Personnally I think it is waste of points.
Night Spinner: Good for inhibiting movement and large blast indirect.
Hvy Wpn Platforms: Footdar specific but sometimes used.

Once you have that determined, you have the core of your force and can start filling it out.

Probably Mechanized, as I already run a lot of infantry-heavy armies in BT, Orks, and Tyranids.

I'll be wanting to be able to run both independently in smaller games, as well as allied to give me more bang for the buck.

So far I like the sounds of the jet bikes to support a Firewarrior core. Is it generally preferred to ally the Eldar in or ally in the Tau? Eventually I'll have both options of course, but I have to pick one to start with and add the second as my gaming budget allows.

As said, to start Tau you get the battleforce. every single unit there is useable and the battleforce can be used as a stand-alone 500 point army (it even got an HQ)
Not a single unit there is wasted-you can never have enough crisis suits kits, stealth suits rock small games, firewarriors are a fine troop, kroot got uses and the devilfish is required if you even get pathfinders later or can be upgraded into a hammerhead with just the guns spur.

As for eldar, you will have to ask others.

The far battleforce is subpar. Buy 3x jetbikes, 5x rangers, and a Farseer for a starting army

Eldar jetbikes are pretty much their best troop choice these days.
Get them in 3s, with options to add a warlock, or to upgrade one to have a Shuri Cannon.

If you're up for a bit of converting, stick a Farseer on a GJB, too. It makes it easier for it to keep up, and whack things with the spear.

War Walkers are still great.

As for troops, the auto-add used to be Fire Dragons, as they are a (relatively) cheap melta unit, and a ride for them toget up close. Use either a Wave Serpent (for its shield) or Falcon (for extra firepower).

All 3 are good units to use as allies.
GJB annd a farseer (on- or off-bike) are the basics I'll take, with the others as required.

I agree with warpspine 89, but you dont have to get rangers, you can get another platoon of Guardian JBs, also if your confertable with small conversions, make your farseer on a jetbike.

To answer your allies question:

At small points levels I would suggest allying the eldar, because eldar troops are more expensive and are better for objective stealing(gaurdian JB), so at medium point games, You probably want something across these lines

Crisis suit Commander
Optional crisis suit team
Kroot team
Fire Warrior team
Optional devilfish(either this or the crisis)
Cheap Hammerhead

Eldar Jetbike Farseer w/ minimal upgrades
Harliquins
Jetbike squadron w/ possibly warlock
Either Shining spears(some people swear by them, some people hate them)
or warwalkers
Falcon for the harliquins

If you want to go mechanized...

Falcon w BL
5 or 6 Dire Avengers.
Farseer on a Bike ( Fortune and Guide)
Warlock on a Bike (Embolden)
EJB

I used to use a farseer and put him inside the Falcon but with the new FAQ I think you want him outside the Falcon.
This gives you 2 troops and an HQ and should run you around 500 points.

Darrett wrote:

I'm leaning toward Tau or Eldar, and I'm kicking around the idea of limiting myself to a 500-750ish army size and getting both, allying the two for larger games. Any thoughts? I haven't played against either army since 3rd edition, so I'm not up to speed on the synergies or lack thereof.

Given how long it has been since either codex has been updated the synergies are pretty much the same, though Eldar have some issues in the current edition of the rules. Eldar vehicle's biggest strength, holo-fields really isn't as good as it used to be since even glances take away hull points now. Has made them not as indestructible as they used to be. Be sure to get the faqs for each list from GW's website before proceeding. Also given how old the books are you might want to wait a short time and see if either gets an update sooner rather than later. They both really need it given how old they are, but who knows with GW.

That said best adaptation to combine the two would be using the Tau as your long range punch while the Eldar provide a close in melee strike force as an ally since melee is still currently a big hole in the Tau arsenal. Rail guns support striking scorpions, harlequins or banshees would be a nice combo. Adding a farseer as the allied HQ would also add lacking psychic ability to the Tau force as well. Not sure what level of allies thye can be with each other so don't know if those powers will work on Tau units per se. If not the farseer can look at something more interesting and original than the standard and tiresome fortune/doom combo that is always used...

Skriker

Harlequins are pretty much the best melee unit in the codex right now.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Harlequins are pretty much the best melee unit in the codex right now.

The problem with that, is you can't shoot into melee. That means that any units being engaged with your melee unit is one less that your Firewarriors/Broadsides can shoot at.

If you want to be a shootie army, make it ALL shootie to not have this problem. But then again, this is form someone that knows Tau, without really knowing Eldar.

Ralis wrote:

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
Harlequins are pretty much the best melee unit in the codex right now.

The problem with that, is you can't shoot into melee. That means that any units being engaged with your melee unit is one less that your Firewarriors/Broadsides can shoot at.

If you want to be a shootie army, make it ALL shootie to not have this problem. But then again, this is form someone that knows Tau, without really knowing Eldar.

Don't you use units to counter-assault units that have assaulted your pew pew? I do with my Eldar and Harlies are terrific at it!

When I build an Eldar army my one concession to HTH is a DA unit with an Exarch w Defend, SS and PW. It is still a firepower unit but it can stand up to just about anything with a Doom and Fortune.

I don't like any CC eldar unit as it is costly and shortlived. For the cost of the harlies, I can field almost 2 DA squads. That is my only problem with them. Scorpions are a bout the only thing I will think of and they are really of limited value versus MEQ and TEQ.

DAaddict wrote:
When I build an Eldar army my one concession to HTH is a DA unit with an Exarch w Defend, SS and PW. It is still a firepower unit but it can stand up to just about anything with a Doom and Fortune.

I don't like any CC eldar unit as it is costly and shortlived. For the cost of the harlies, I can field almost 2 DA squads. That is my only problem with them. Scorpions are a bout the only thing I will think of and they are really of limited value versus MEQ and TEQ.

CC DAs are surprisingly solid for an Eldar troop choice eh!? I quite like them too.

I strongly suggest Eldar. Tau are cool but i found their miniature range to be of a rather low quality ( badly cast, relatively low detail, battlesuits are a pain to assemble ).

 KingDeath wrote:
I strongly suggest Eldar. Tau are cool but i found their miniature range to be of a rather low quality ( badly cast, relatively low detail, battlesuits are a pain to assemble ).

They aren't bad, they just dont have any very good ones, that and the ethereals look like space popes.

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
They aren't bad, they just dont have any very good ones, that and the ethereals look like space popes.

The Broadside kits were always a pain due to the gun being heavy, unevenly weighed, and they never really made a way for them to "connect" to the model. They had a tiny sliver that was supposed to hold it into a very wide slot and it was an utter pain. I don't know how they do now with finecast, but those were such a hassle. That aside, the model always looked silly. A cover over the very large and obviously jetpack like backpack really ruined it's look, and they threw in the tiniest little ankles with the biggest feet possible for... Recoil? If you don't think it looks bad, go check out some of the conversions. They really put the model to shame with how simple it could have been made better.

Crisis suits are a mix feeling with me. I can't stand the feet and ankles. So weak and tiny, and balancing on it's tip toes no less. The entire torso and jetpack are two pieces that I've always gotten warped. Not enough to really be noticable until you try putting them together. There is always trouble getting the jetpack front and back to be flush. I've always ended up having to cut both of the back pieces off and just put them together seperately from the back.

Other than those issues, I've always like how Tau look and they can be very nicely and easily converted. The basic model is very static and hard to pose based on the legs joints and limited arm movements. And technically it's really just the Crisis suit needs a better kit, and the broadsides should be it's own kit entirely and not an upgrade pack. And both need different legs.

Oh, and to the original issue with starting with Tau. I'd suggest against getting the battleforce. The devilfish is extremely expensive, especially in small games where you'll be starting off with them. Stealth suits are very situational and again expensive for what you get. Firewarriors are required, so good on that. Kroot are completely trash right now. The crisis suit is really the only good model from the kit.

Paulson games (I think that's it) has some really good looking bits made almost entirely for the crisis suit. Comes out cheaper and better looking than the broadside kits. So to start off I'd get 1-2 units of FW, about 4-6 suits, and some of the bits so you can swap between broadside and crisis suits. Comes out about $200 and you can field a very respectable 500 point list with a lot to build up from.

Actually, the crisis suits look great in my eyes, after all the suit moves by jetpack, the "tiny legs" are there for steering the jet thrust, and as such don't need to be massive.

Broadsides however, look silly as hell. but the new firecast actually fits alright, so at least THAT got covered.


Also, you missed the point of the battleforce.
You don't WANT the devilfish, you want it's spures to be combied with hammerhead turrent spure

$135 for one hammerhead, one suit, and 12 firewarriors?

Just an update; I managed to get a good deal on the Eldar and Tau in different places and will need only minor fixes/paint stripping. Currently I have:

4x Crisis Suits (magnetized), though one is just glued as a Plasma/Missile Pod
30x Fire Warriors
6x "Pathfinders" (Fire Warrior conversion) with Carbines/Markerlights
Devilfish

Eldar Farseer
3x Warlocks
6x GJB
10 Dire Avengers
2x Wave Serpent (one with forgeworld kit)
1x Falcon Grav Tank (Pulse Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Scatterlaser)

All of the above ran me $210, which was great, I just need to strip some paint and maybe find some bits if I need to swap weapons from the existing.

I'm looking next month for a squad of Fire Dragons to fit in a Wave Serpent and a Hammerhead, hopefully at a deal.

How does this look so far? Am I best running the Seer Council or should I try to stick them onto jetbikes? Any suggestions on loadouts? I lean toward the Plas/MP/MT on the crisis at first look, but I'm not sure if that's splitting focus too much.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
$135 for one hammerhead, one suit, and 12 firewarriors?

And 12 kroot, 3 stealth suits, marker drone, and 6 gun drones. sounds better now?

Sure, not all of them are perfect ATM, but new codex is showing up, and stealth/kroot are actually nice in smaller games where infiltrate is a strong ability.

And yes, buying from Ebay and stuff is cheaper, but we are talking about getting started, and that's where you want to be nice and simple (plus, if your FLGS is anything like mine, you can get it for far less then 135$...that would go for about 100$ if you are willing to wait a bit for a large order to be placed.)

As for your deal-seems like you really hit the jackpot on the price there, but I cant comment on the eldar units-way unfamiliar with them.