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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

O.k. Here it is, a Celexus assain makes anybody within 12" of him "count as" leadership 7. Here are the questions:

1. If a unit is within 12" of both a Celexus and a Space Marine Librarian using Fear of the Darkness, do they test at Leadership 5?

2. Deamons when they make their instability tests do so on there "unmodified" Leadership, however, the Celexus makes them "count as" Leadership 7, which leadership do they take tests on?

3. Units such as Imperial Guard and Space Marines can use the Leadership of another model. Do they still use that leadership or does the Celexus' rules take precedent?


Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Imported to Boston

1) the answer should be yes, Ld 5
(which is kinda wicked :-9)

but I'm not sure about the other questions.

On Dakka when we can't use RAW we use Name calling, Poo throwing, and Dictionary quotes in that order to resolve it. - Glaive Company CO 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





2. Greater Deamons when they make their instability tests do so on their "unmodified" Leadership, the celexus effect is a modifier and doesn't apply.
Lesser Daemons when they make their instability tests do so with a modifiable Ld. and would count as Ld. 7 before other modifiers are applied.

Nothing Can Kill The Grimace

Any conversation about composition scoring on DakkaDakka is the blind leading the blind.
Or the evil leading the blind, more accurately. - xtapl 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

The arguement I heard concerning Greater Deamons was that the Assain makes their Leadership 7, it isn't a modifier like a -2 or a -1.

I can understand and agree with the "unmodified" leadership arguement, but the wording of the Celexus' rules must be called into question.

From what I understand, the rule basically says that the units within 12" of the Celexus "counts as" Leadership 7. It isn't phrased as a reduction to leadership 7, it is phrased as if you are subject to the rule than you have to count it as if you have always been leadership 7.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I don't have the assassin rule, what is the rule word for word?

3. A unit can use another model's Ld. if it's more than 12" away from the assassin and not attached to the unit. In the first case the unit has it's Ld. reduced but they use the Ld. of an uneffected model for the test. In the second case the IC is part of the unit and will have it's Ld. reduced if it is more than 12" away because it is the unit that is effected.

Nothing Can Kill The Grimace

Any conversation about composition scoring on DakkaDakka is the blind leading the blind.
Or the evil leading the blind, more accurately. - xtapl 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

I don't have the rule in front of me but the thing I know it says word for word is that "any unit (friend or foe) within 12" of the Celexus counts as Leadership 7", the wording doesn't say that the leadership is reduced to 7 but rather that the leadership is suposed to count as always having been 7. My guess is that it is phrased like that for other modifiers to take affect without causeing undue confusion (such as do you reduce to 7 before or after modifiers). But this does lead to a intersesting situation with Unstable Greater Deamons, since the rule isn't a modifier than the deamon tests on it's "unmodified" leadership of 7. But I do see the arguement that changing the leadership to 7 is in fact modifing it. I want to get other peoples opinion on it.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Master of the Hunt





Angmar

"Any unit (friend or foe) with a model within 12" of the Culexus Assassin counts as having a Leadership of 7, unless it would normally be less than this." C:WH p30

"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the seed of Arabica that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

Thank you Blue Loki.

As you can see the problem is as I am describing.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Philadelphia

I would think that any tests against Leadership would work on the Ld7. In addition to Blue Loki's codex quote, the Psyk-out grenades of the Culexus say to compare the Lds of the Culexus and an enemy Psyker plus a 2d6 roll for each (and they put in parenthesis that the enemy Psyker is to be considered Ld7 due to 'souless').


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"There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions." - Railguns 
   
Made in us
Master of the Hunt





Angmar

It feels similar the SM Master rule to me. Always 7 unless normally less than that. Meaning once LD is forced to 7, it will not change from that value. But thats just my opinion and I offer no support for it.

Feel free to change my mind

"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the seed of Arabica that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Los Angeles

Well, let me see if I can have a go at this.

P1: "Counts as" Ld 7 is not a modifier because it replaces the statistic itself, as opposed to offering a + or -, a modifier, to the statistic.

P2: GD test on their unmodified LD.

C1: The Culexus makes the GD test on LD 7.

C2: The Chaos player wins anyway because the Culexus Assassin is an egregious waste of pts.

"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

In reply to Blue Loki, it appears the rule is an area affect and a conditional statement based off the location of the assain.

In reply to Bigchris1313, I agree with you. And I am stupid enough to take him im my Adepticon Gladiator list. He will be more than worth it is I make one Forgeworld Supercheese Greater Deamon test Instability at Leadership 7, but I am not foolish enough to think this will happen. Besides how awsome would the Fear of the Darkness plus Souless be. Or attacking the enevitable 10 Librairans I plan to face. Or he can just shoot at terminators and make me happy. I believe there is a use for him. Why he doen't have a Power Weapon is beyond me.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Whorelando, FL

Mahu, I'd strongly consider using those points to get more boots on the ground, but we've been down that road...hehe. The opportunity seems like a good idea, but in actual game play, he's going to get butchered like a hog and you are giving up those points to easily.

Capt K

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

I have changed my list a little since the last time. Let's just say that I don't have any rhinos or Razorbacks in my force now.

I will be more than capable of putting up a good fight.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Whorelando, FL

Wha? No razorbacks or rhinos? the world is ending!....on the other hand....Good...good...

Capt K

Good! Use your aggressive feelings boy!

   
 
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