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Hello all, this is seapheonix actually, bogalubov is off vacationing and I thought I would do a practice game with a couple lists we wrote up. I'm afraid it's largely proxies (only one flamer marine) Hope you don't mind that too much. However, it's always fun to experiment and think through a codex. So here we have two armies built very differently. One a lot of shooty, the other a lot of hacking.
Army one: Juggerlord!
Spoiler:
HQ Juggerlord with sigil, gift, ax of blind fury and khorney (he goes with the khorne bikers Got hatred everybody as his warlord trait
Troops 5 berzerkers with chain axes and a gift (fearless troops) 5 chaos marines with gift, flamer, rhino (reserve troops for objective running 24 cultists with two heavy stubbers (they live in the bastion 10 cultists (they play with the big gun on top of the bastion)
Elite Helbrute 2x power fists heavy flamers (shooty fex) Helbrute thunderhammer power fist heavy flamer( painted huggy fex) helbrute power fist heavy flamer, power scourge (armless fex)
Fast attack 10 bikers, 2x melta, power weapon, mok gift
Heavy Mauler fiends times 3
Bastion with quad gun.
Army two: Slaanesh sorcery
Spoiler:
Hq: Sorcerer level 3, terminator armor, spell familiar Slaanesh termi lord w/combi melta
Troops: 10 cultists 20 cultists 5 noise marines w/one blast master and sonic boomers 5 noise marines w/one blast master and sonic boomers 10 noise marines w/two blast masters and sonic boomers
Fast attack Bale flamer turkey
Heavy: 5 havocs with auto cannons 5 havocs with las cannons 2 oblits
Pregame thoughts: Jugger army. Well, I had to change what was an aegis defence line into a bastion since I didn't have enough little wooden blocks to manage it. Stumbling upon this actually makes me think it might be better then an ADL. I plan on tossing the cultists inside of the bastion which gives them all fearless. The small squad on top improves the quality of the quad gun and lets me choose the target. The 24 man squad inside fires their heavy stubbers out the ports and shoots the heavy bolters. Objectives placed nearby means I don't have to get out until that last turn to claim them, in the meantime my squishy cultists are well protected. Juggerlord and his bikes are planning on holding one flank or the other depending on how cover works out. I want to keep him away from the salvo weapons of the noise marines, (there's really nowhere to hide from the blast masters.) All the big guys, (helbrutes and maulerfiends) will simply line up as close to the enemy as possible, and will then hoof it across as quickly as they can. I can already see that the maulerfiends will get there long before the helbrutes and the foot berzerkers will. However, this is supposed to be an extreme test of the big close combat possibilities, this would be much better if the helbrutes could be drop podded in.
Noisy army: Not sure exactly how Bogalubov would play this army, so I'm trying to utilize some of the strategies I know he likes, as well as what I would do. I know he likes to put his lords in with the obiterators so they can deep strike in. I believe that is what the sorcerer is supposed to do as well since he's in termi armor. Noise marines will mostly be placed with fields of fire that will cover any objectives and open spaces. Lascannon havocs will be anti armor first, possibly targeting the bastion, although that will likely be the obliterators job. I would say they are there to first kill the maulerfiends, then the helbrutes. I would expect one big guy a turn from them. Autocannon havocs of course on the quad gun, although the juggerlist has no fliers. Instead they will target the bikers along with the noise marines, try to take them out before they can hit the defence line turn two. Cultists will be a blob to slow down the bikers, and the other squad will attempt to run across to any objectives after they come in from reserve. Heldrake will come in and target the bikers first, then helbrutes with vector strike and any squishy marines with flamers. If I can get to the bastion with it, I can cook everyone inside with the baleflamer pretty easy. The shooty army will all hinge on the ability to kill off the big beasts before they get to the line.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/10 16:50:50
Well here we go, a quick game actually.
Deployment:
Spoiler:
Juggerlord set up his army first. Initially I set up from left to right. The bikers first, then mauler fiends interspersed with helbrutes. Berzerkers on the right side hiding behind the bigger guys. Bastion was set up in a good position to allow my cultists to step out and claim my objective. As I continued to look at it however, I saw that the noise marines would likely be set up right around the objective, and if I charged my bikers up along that side. They would get destroyed by all the salvo fire.
So I shifted to the right side, so they could head up through the ruins on there and along a weaker flank. Rhino in reserve with chaos marines.
Noisy army set up mostly behind the ADL the large noise marine squad set up next to the objective with their survivability, a small squad infiltrated into ruins with a 24 inch field of fire that included the objective to kill any troops that made it that far. The large cultist blob was inside the ADL using them as a meat shield for the first wave of assaulters. Havocs were set up as planned, the autocannons with the quad gun, the las cannons in ruin with great line of sight. More noise marines were across the table in the far right corner, either as a distraction to the large force tended towards them, or to take pot shots at the bastion and slowly make their way in support. Sorcerer, lord, and oblits were deep striking together. Heldrake in reserve, and ten cultists planning on running along the right board edge late and hopefully steal an objective.
Turn one:
Spoiler:
Juggernaught army:
Well Movement was pretty simple, lot of everything moving up. Bikes went to the ruins with no fatalities, all the helbrutes and mauler fiends ran with the berzerkers following behind.
Cultists in the bastion killed a cultist behind the ADL, and the quad gun killed an infiltrated noise marine.
Noisy army:
Not much movement, the cultists were in a good position to be a meat shield, so they fired their weapons. Managed to kill a biker. Havocs on the quad gun killed five more. Lascannons caused a single pen on the nearest mauler fiend, and rolled can't move/shoot. Daemon possession then ignored that.
Turn two
Spoiler:
Juggernaught army:
Chaos marines in rhino didn't come in.
Helbrutes continued to follow slowly, with only heavy flamers as their shooting option there was no reason not to run them.
Cultists in the bastion killed a single infiltrated noise marine.
Bikers moved right to the edge of the aegis defence line, killed two cultists with shooting, then charged. A maulerfiend charged the las cannon havocs, failed it's charge, and was unhurt. Second mauler fiend charged auto cannon havocs, saved the one glance from overwatch.
As would be expected the bikers and lord wiped the cultists, the necessary challenge resulted in the chaos lord gaining a wound.
Maulerfiend slaughtered the havocs champion.
Wounded maulerfiend would not die, back to full hp.
Slaanesh army:
Everything comes in from reserves. Quad gun does put two glances on the heldrake.
The heldrake vector strikes and kills one biker.
Oblits with the lord and sorcerer drop in behind the line of helbrutes and the berzerkers. (sorcerer couldn't cast any blessings because it was after the start of the movement phase. Good reason not to deep strike him.)
Cultists came in on the corner closest to the bastion, hoping to sneak past the main fight.
Obliterators fired plasma cannons, blowing up a helbrute and disintegrating all the berzerkers.
Heldrake baleflamed a fart that roasted two more bikers.
Las cannons pen the maulerfiend who had tried to shake them, he saves one, and then ignores the shaken result of the other. Three follow up blast master shots however wreck it.
Autofire from the quad gun (the squad normally manning it was in cc.) managed to kill the biker champ.
In close combat the maulerfiend fighting said havocs killed all but one, and he ran off the table.
Turn 3
Spoiler:
Angry fist fighting army:
Rhino comes in from reserve and moves flat out, right behind where the infiltrated noise marines just marched.
Bastion and such kill three of the enemy cultists, surprisingly, they didn't break.
Two remaining helbrutes flame and charge the oblits and lord. Fire puts one wound on an oblit.
Helbrutes then charge and wipe out the whole group. Str 10 ap2 instant deaths the oblits, lord and sorcerer. (five hits, all wounded, only the lord saved one wound.)
Juggerlord now on his own charges the large noise marine squad single handed. He destroys the noise marine champ and gains shrouded.
A maulerfiend makes it into close combat with the lascannon havocs and kills their champ.
The last maulerfiend scales a building and charges a small noise marine squad, whiffing all his attacks, and taking a glance from a lucky krak grenade.
After the glance, it will not die returns it to full health.
Noise marine army:
Not broken cultists continue to move towards the opposing objective.
infiltrated noise marines stay put so they can shoot at the back of the rhino.
Heldrake vector strikes a helbrute causing a pen. Gives the helbrute crazy rage. Then flames the inside of the bastion. Magically rolling ten out of twenty four dice as ones.
Auto fire from the quad gun puts glances the second helbrute giving it a controlled rage.
Juggerlord rolls takes a single wound from the noise marines, and counters with killing five of them.
One mauler kills all but one havoc. The other kills the noise marine champ he is fighting.
Heldrake healed a wound.
Turn 4
Spoiler:
Juggernaughty army:
Rhino flat out drives again and is four inches shy of the objective.
Bastion cultists didn't break because they are fearless in the bastion, they fire away at the noisy cultists once more, killing three more and this time they broke.
Quad gun hits the flyer with all shots, then rolls all ones.
Helbrute is just out of range to flame the noisy quad gun, and also fails his charge.
Maulerfiend number one kills the last havoc, and just hangs out in the ruins he's in.
The other maulerfiend kills two of the remaining four noise marines.
The juggerlord rolls a 1 taking a wound from the angry ax, saves it with his invul, and he still manages to kill two noise marines.
Noise marines:
Only two units not in close combat, the hel drake vector strikes the quad gun, on top of the bastion, destroying it.
Infiltrated noise marines start moving for the objective, mostly hoping for a sixth or seventh turn. Blast master didn't move, lagging at the edge of coherency so he can shoot and pen a helbrute. Made the helbrute really angry.
Baleflammer manages to cook the remaining cultists inside the bastion.
Quadgun on auto fire wrecks the rhino, the chaos marines inside fail their pinning check, but are claiming the objective.
Juggerlord really does wound himself with the ax this time, failing his invul. Even so he manages to kill the last two noise marines and consolidate towards the quad gun.
Maulerfiend wipes the last of the noise marines in the ruins.
Turn 5
Spoiler:
Khorne jugger list
Cultists come out the bottom of the bastion, claiming the angry objective.
Juggerlord takes control of the slaanesh quad gun, causes one glance on the retreating heldrake.
The really angry helbrute charges the only three remaining slaanesh troops on the board. Noise marine champion hitting first krak grenades the helbrute, leaving it a wreck. Noise marines consolidate a couple inches closer to the objective, still 19 inches away.
Slaanesh
With only three models on the board they run towards the objective. Heldrake has to fly off the board. (heldrake was hoping to come in the other side of the board and flame away the chaos marines holding that objective.
Wrap up
Spoiler:
It was not meant to be however. While the turkey did damage the chaos marines and the juggerlord, it was shot down by the quad gun. Noise marine, whittled down to only a single marine was shot as he approached the objective by cultists.
Two mauler fiends, a helbrute, the juggerlord and a handful of cultists. Not bad for an extreme army build. I feel like chaos is meant to be an army centered around a strong close combat force. Most of the gifts of chaos benefit directly to that style. They auto need to challenge gives you a greater chance that after your strong guy kills the enemy champ, they will still be locked in combat during your opponents turn, allowing you the safety afforded by close combat.
I think the bastion with cultists worked really well, I'd experiment with a couple other options for who is on the roof. Perhaps a havoc squad with even more anti-air weapons. Inside though, a couple of heavy stubbers and you have a viable shooting cultist squad that is now fearless. Place your objectives near the base and you can stay pretty safe until that last turn.
Mauler fiends: Well they are crazy at close combat once they get there. I would hesitate to charge them into a full squad of something with power fists/hammers, melta bombs. It does miss at least half of it's attacks so you won't kill the whole squad. Again, I think partially this is a bonus to keep you from being shot at in your opponents phase.
Hel brutes are better with a gun. That one extra attack could easily be foregone for a chance to shoot at range. Even then, there are better things you can probably use those points for in the elite slot. Terminators, thousand sons. Noise marines with the amazing blast masters.
Bikers did pretty well, I think if I were to run them again I wouldn't bother with the mark of khorne. So many of them are guaranteed to die it's not worth the extra attacks. Giving a power weapon the champ seems well worth it though.
Gifts: I don't see many people bringing gifts heavily in their army. While there is the chance of them doing nothing, it seems like I got a lot more good from it then negative. The lord started with +1 str. The berzerker had hatred (never got to use it)
Good report seaphoenix. My perusal of dakka on vacation paid off by finding your report.
I like the idea of a bastion in a minimum troops list. It ensures that the contents of the bastion will be ignored as the chance of hurting them are very low. It also offers LOS blocking terrain for placing an objective behind it. It's also barely more expensive than the line while offering better protection and heavy bolters. Also, I had no idea that you could flame the inside. If you can't see the guys, can you hurt them?
As for the noise marine list. The terminator lord was there to give access to noise marines as troops and to possibly deep stike with the obliterations. However, in this game I would have started the oblits on the board to bring their firepower to bear turn 1 against your monster mash.
The sorcerer had terminator armor because it's dirt cheap 2+ protection. The plan for him was to roll biomancy to synergize with the noise marines. I would look for enfeeble and the one that gives relentless and fnp. I'm not sure if them starting on the board would have made a difference, but that's probably what I would have done. He can also be dropped for a second hell turkey.
The outcome of the game does suggest that perhaps chaos is best played with minimum troops (certainly no actual marines) and maximum number of hard hitters. The daemons book and its new iteration might be better ways to go about this approach.
