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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 02:04:59
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Fresh-Faced New User
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This is not a post asking "what do you think of cheaters?" or " what should you do if you see someone cheating" I think the general consensus is that cheating is bad, no question there.
But gotta say while of course rule bending (cheating) is awful and really annoying. I am sometimes amused at the mental gymnastics and warping of rules that cheaters use to justify their actions.
So i want to start a thread so people can share their stories without naming any names (other the posters) about stuff that's just made you shake your head and sigh.
I understand that in this game with so many rules its easy to be confused and mistakes happen but there are plenty of times people just bend or break the rules. I have seen it happen may times for many reasons, WAAC, being TFG, trying to get back at TFG the list goes on.
The other day I played a Necron army with my DA the guy insisted that the Cronometron could re- roll one die during each phase for any model in his army or mine. He of course didn't have his Codex with him, we all know that it only affects rolls that the Harbinger of Eternity makes but I couldn't prove it at the time. Oh well.
Please share your experiences, as they say the more you know.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/15 02:07:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 04:09:38
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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The Hive Mind
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Not that he was right, but its any roll the Cryptek or his unit make.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 04:14:00
Subject: Re:Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Hellish Haemonculus
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I once hit someone's vehicle with a melta-weapon (from about two inches away). I penetrated it, and rolled the penetrating hit result. Got a 4 on the die. With my melta weapon. Against his open-topped vehicle. (This was 5th edition.) I say that I can't recall the chart at the moment, and he "kindly" tells me that it's a Weapon Destroyed result. (For those who, like me at the time, haven't memorized it, it should have Exploded.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 04:20:06
Subject: Re:Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Rigeld2 your right, I forgot to mention thought he was not in a unit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 04:26:01
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Tunneling Trygon
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Worst I had, the guy was constantly lying about rules. He tried to tell me his lasguns were Ap. 6, his Guardsmen were Ld. 9, he shot 6 shots out of 2 plasma guns... I'd played the guy before and he told me that "the Aegis" on his dreads affected all powers. He also moved things fast and pulled up his tape measure before moving, and moved it too far. Then, he always swept up his dice during key moments, even after I asked him to see them. Oh, and this was round 4 at the top table of a Grand Tournament. I finally "went to the bathroom" and convinced the TO to stand 15 feet behind the guy without him knowing, and saw it himself. I ended up winning after I called him out on a lot of things, and he won't be back next year.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 08:43:54
Subject: Re:Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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They killed my Doom and Tervigon with instant Death b/c of the new choas power that lowers strength and Toughness by 1 permanently. Well I looked it up after it says cumulative not permanent and I get to roll on the chart he doesn't pick. Was Upsetting to say the least.
The second was in a tournament my GKs vs Eldar. He went 1st and set up then I set up. Well Coteaz seized and then he uses a special redeploy power to move his transports into cover since they were out in the open. I didn't find out till after he can't use that after seize.
The same Eldar guy in another tournament I asked him do you have anything in reserve since he rolled the warlord trait that can outflank a warlord and his unit? He said I don't like reserves. I went 1st and proceeded to own him. On my turn 3 I moved everything up thru diff. terrain and made all the rolls on my Rhinos thinking I only had mop up left. I thought old Eldrad was hiding in his back ruins. The next thing I know Eldrad and and a group of fire dragons is outflanking my bastion w/ Coteaz, plasma cann. serv., and jokearos w/ nothing left to defend them. 2 of my transports full of purgs turn around and both hit diff. terrain and roll 1s. I barely lose by points in the end. I would have never moved those 2 transports up (well maybe 1 of them) if I had know about the reserves. I was pissed to say the least. At the end the store gave me best attitude which was $40 compared to winning which he got $60, so i let it drop. They also say if he steps out of bounds again it is an auto disqualify which I think it should have been then.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 10:47:57
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Sniping Hexa
Dublin
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To be honest Mythra, if you missed to spot that Eldrad and his fire dragon unit wasn't on the table and that he wasn't casting psychic powers all over the place (and cancelling yours, as you're a GK), the error is on your side
He said "he didn't like reserves", not that he wasn't using it, even though it's not a fair way of saying it, agreed
The seizing & redeploying afterwards, if not possible, is indeed bad, but this is the kind of things that can be misunderstood or wrongly read (or indeed, wrongly read on purpose)
The thing on the Nurgle spell is clearly cheating as there's no way it can be misunderstood
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 11:17:54
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Fresh-Faced New User
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First time playing this person at my hobby store, he charges my shoota boyz with a nob in it with his Pedro Kantor and 2 stern. He challenges and I decline, he then proceeds to tell me that I automatically die if I decline. I kindly let him know that I didn't, I just don't get my nobs attacks. So we do the fighting for the others around the challenge and I wipe everything. He throws a fit and I start to pick up my models and put them away. I learned my lesson of playing with adult children.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 14:19:57
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker
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I've came along alot of misunderstood rules, as soon as I notice something isn't right or just 'what the frekk' I ask if they would like to show me where this is noted down. Sometimes they look surprised while reading their rule (then I know they were just wrong but in a good way) other times they read and then (almost annoyed) tell me I'm right (then I know they were kind of cheating, taking all their moves with a grain of salt from then on) and fewer times they allow me to read the rule and/or other written down explanations and then I complement their insight in the games mechanics and their tactical use of it! (good job)
When it comes down to measuring I'm really strict (even my fellow hobbyists think that but they kinda like it, since i'm always right) I do artsy schools and am quite talented as the teachers always tell me (oh stop it you!) but it also means I have a trained eye for direction and distances, I'l always notice when a unit has moved half an inch further then allowed, and even more so, when a scatter is wrongly drawn (people turn a bit of the scatter extra themselves). Some think i'm rulebending then, until they realise I also correct them if they move their blast wrongly (as when they measure, they wouldn't hit a thing but thx to me still hit 2 models or something because I show them they are wrong) from then on people appreciate my eye for those things, but most are still a bit grumpy when they hear me saying, 'are you cheating, because your measuring that scatter about 20° wrong!' but smile when they hear 'If you measure correctly your deep struck models will still be on the table.'
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 14:32:32
Subject: Re:Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper
Chandler, Arizona
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I can't recall any "cheating", but certainly some misinterpretation of the rule. If we can't get a good ruling on it, 4+ for your understanding of the rule, and we carry on.
We did have this one guy though, he LOVED to use funky dice that were REALLY hard to read with any amount of quickness. He would roll them and pick them up very quickly, which I always thought was a little fishy. Now this was just an annoyance, but he would do this little fist pump EVERY time he rolled his dice. This isn't very gamer-ly of me, but I wanted to rock his face every time. Not to mention he was a sore loser.
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"You are judged in life, not by the evil you destroy, but by the light you bring to the darkness" - Reclusiarch Grimaldus of the Black Templars |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 14:37:27
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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For me its myself, I am notoriously bad at mathS, so to solve this issue I sit down with my opponent and write a list, before I see what they have of course, worst case was when I had an extra LAND RAIDER lol, so I always hand my list over and ask if they want to check it... Sometimes I insist lol...I hate mathS
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 14:43:01
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I get stuff confused all of the time, that's why I talk out what I'm doing and what I need to hit or to wound before I roll the dice.
"12 shots at this unit, need 3's to hit. 4 on 4, I need 4's to wound." That sort of thing. I've gotten weapon strength of toughness mixed up before, so it's a good practice to keep me accurate.
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 14:58:54
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Executing Exarch
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Dice - when people pick the scatter dice up to move it closer and it's mysteriously now pointing in exactly the right direction they needed it to. When before, it was a bit off.
My other hate is when I let things go in a game - over moving, stuff like that. I don't normally care as I want to play friendly. Then as soon as it get's to my go, I find out the other guy is some form of ruler/distance nazi and is accusing me of moving 2 mil further than I should.
Or when two people measure the same distance - and it manages to vary by half a centimeter. Which can be the difference between charging and not. And by the time you finish arguing over measuring, the model appears to have been knocked with a hastily waved tape measure. So now it's closer if I'm being charged, or further away if I'm charging...
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Blacksails wrote:
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 15:02:45
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Boosting Ultramarine Biker
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kronk wrote:I get stuff confused all of the time, that's why I talk out what I'm doing and what I need to hit or to wound before I roll the dice.
"12 shots at this unit, need 3's to hit. 4 on 4, I need 4's to wound." That sort of thing. I've gotten weapon strength of toughness mixed up before, so it's a good practice to keep me accurate.
I try and do this too. It's best on measuring. I even interject for players' behalf, saying, "oh you'll need to roll a 4 on the charge" (if it's close) so we can debate, if need be before the dice hit, it's always easier that way.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 15:04:26
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Haha I know what you mean preda
I usually roll my scatter next to the unit I'm shooting, when I roll to hit and wound I ask my opponent to help me pick out the failures, keeps us both in the game and actively taking part even in my turn, I also let my opponent roll my psy powers so they know exactly what I have, same with warlord, saves time and stops any issue later on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 15:14:37
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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The best things you can get when arguing about charge distances are those multrulers that have incriments of 6", 4", 2", and 1".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 15:39:42
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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xSPYXEx wrote:The best things you can get when arguing about charge distances are those multrulers that have incriments of 6", 4", 2", and 1".
Haha those are amazing. Funny story from one of my last games. So guy is using the tac ruler from gf9 all game till it comes to the last turn and a crucial move/charge. And mysteriously he breaks out his tape measure. When I went to shoot at his unit the previous turn they were 15" away. But after their movement need only a 6" charge. Odd huh, I didn't realize grey hunters could move 9". I kinda let it happen because I got cocky and thought No way he could win as I was up 10-6 then he charges kills 2 of my necron warrior with 6 grey hunters and sweeps my unit of 10+cryptek off a 2pt objective for the tie. Game ends with my destroyer lord 3.5" away from the objective.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 15:59:58
Subject: Re:Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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TanKoL I totally disagree. "the player must clearly explain the organization of his reserves to the opponent." and "First, he must specify to his opponent if any of his independent characters left in reserve are joining a unit, in which case they will arrive together. Similarly, the player must specify if any units in reserve are embarked upon a transport". P. 124 of the rulebook on reserves.
Even if he didn't have a farseer (which he did) back in the ruins it isn't my job to police his reserves. I don't even have to ask about reserves (which I always do) he is supposed to explain it to me. He didn't state Eldrad was in reserves. He didn't state an IC was join a unit. He didn't state if any units were embarked upon a transport. Are you saying we should throw the whole reserves section out or ignore page 124? If we get to decide to ignore rules I will just ignore his runes making Coteaz roll 3d6 - he had already taken 2 peril's even tho Eldrad was in reserves - that still doesn't seem right to me. How many times did he break the reserve rules? I count at least 4. You wouldn't be upset? He made a purposeful misleading statement on top of all that, "I don't like reserves." Not only does that violate the letter but it violates the spirit - you can't get much worse than that - If I was the TO I would have immediately disqualified him. He knowing cheated and he is the top player there and knows all the rules inside out people always go to him if they have a rules question. I had Coteaz with ignores cover he had lost about 5 units total back there he only had 2 guys hiding out sight on the objective and 3 guys with his far seer hiding in another set of ruins. I guess i shoulda maybe walked around the table to see for myself what he had. He was casting powers sure but he never said a farseer casts or Eldrad casts he just said I cast.
In conclusion I don't think it gets much worse that violating the spirit and the letter of the rules. How can it? That is not bending or misinterpreting the rules that is out right breaking them. He knew he had an advantage with an out flanking Eldrad in a transport w/ firedragons and broke the rules to impede my play even further. I even said you broke the reserve rules and called the TO over -- why are my transports being immobilized trying to turn around to react to a threat I should have know existed. The TO really didn't know what to do. He should have been hands down disqualified since there was cash prize at the end.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 16:09:02
Subject: Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
Phoenix, AZ, USA
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One of my biggest pet peeves are people that use a tape messure to messure out a distance to move, snap the tape messure shut and move the unit 7"-8" by "eyeballing" it. And if you point out the error, they argue about moving their unit back,finally move it back, and then on the every next move do the exact same messure-snap-eyeball move.
However, instead of complaining, I'll just messure-snap-eyeball my shooting range, slide my dice for 6's to hit and wound, and pack up my models with a smile a turn later. I can cheat, too, after all.
SJ
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“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 20:41:57
Subject: Re:Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Apprehensive Inquisitorial Apprentice
Washington
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Mythra wrote:TanKoL I totally disagree. "the player must clearly explain the organization of his reserves to the opponent." and "First, he must specify to his opponent if any of his independent characters left in reserve are joining a unit, in which case they will arrive together. Similarly, the player must specify if any units in reserve are embarked upon a transport". P. 124 of the rulebook on reserves. Even if he didn't have a farseer (which he did) back in the ruins it isn't my job to police his reserves. I don't even have to ask about reserves (which I always do) he is supposed to explain it to me. He didn't state Eldrad was in reserves. He didn't state an IC was join a unit. He didn't state if any units were embarked upon a transport. Are you saying we should throw the whole reserves section out or ignore page 124? If we get to decide to ignore rules I will just ignore his runes making Coteaz roll 3d6 - he had already taken 2 peril's even tho Eldrad was in reserves - that still doesn't seem right to me. How many times did he break the reserve rules? I count at least 4. You wouldn't be upset? He made a purposeful misleading statement on top of all that, "I don't like reserves." Not only does that violate the letter but it violates the spirit - you can't get much worse than that - If I was the TO I would have immediately disqualified him. He knowing cheated and he is the top player there and knows all the rules inside out people always go to him if they have a rules question. I had Coteaz with ignores cover he had lost about 5 units total back there he only had 2 guys hiding out sight on the objective and 3 guys with his far seer hiding in another set of ruins. I guess i shoulda maybe walked around the table to see for myself what he had. He was casting powers sure but he never said a farseer casts or Eldrad casts he just said I cast. In conclusion I don't think it gets much worse that violating the spirit and the letter of the rules. How can it? That is not bending or misinterpreting the rules that is out right breaking them. He knew he had an advantage with an out flanking Eldrad in a transport w/ firedragons and broke the rules to impede my play even further. I even said you broke the reserve rules and called the TO over -- why are my transports being immobilized trying to turn around to react to a threat I should have know existed. The TO really didn't know what to do. He should have been hands down disqualified since there was cash prize at the end. It all depends on whether you play with open or closed lists. I have been accused of cheating for doing similar things but I never considered misdirection a form of cheating (all warfare if based on deception). Now I just clarify before the game whether we are playing with open or closed lists. If we are playing closed lists I write down everything on my sheet whether or not it is in reserves and how it enters it, I don't reveal any of my units until it is my turn to deploy (and then only the units I place on the table and I don't say how they are equipped before I use them unless he/she asks [I always clarify that all my models are always played as is and never have hidden war gear]) and likewise I don't expect my opponent to tell me he will be trying to flank me. Usually when I put it like that my opponent agrees, but if they don't like the idea then I tell them exactly where everything will be and ask for the same. IMO an experienced player will recognize when his opponent doesn't have his whole hand showing, but regardless your list should always be available at the end of the match and to clarify (or at least a scratch piece of paper clarifying your reserves that was written down before you deployed; i'm looking at you battlescribe/whathaveyou army list builders). When it comes to people who "forget their rulebook" I make a habit of reading all the codexes for every army as do my friends; I will give the benefit of the doubt to a player with a newer codex or a player who has had the same army over numerous editions as sometimes the rules from one edition or another will come to mind if it is something you used to do often. I've never found a polite way of saying "I think you are clearly taking advantage of my good nature/mental state with your model movement/measuring/scatter/that's not where that models was in the unit earlier, you can't use your 6" movement to move models around in the unit and have them go 8" or 9"!" so I generally find it is easier to default to, "I'm sorry I process things a little slower than you do, can you please leave your dice and tape measure on the table until I see them so I know what's going on?" I find slowing down the movement phase a little when need be & making sure that everything stays transparent as possible keeps everyone honest (even I re-check things from my own codex during the course of the battle to ensure I am doing it right every time I see a reaction of surprise from my opponent). Like wise I'll set my tape measure on the table next to the unit I am moving so it is very clear. People tend to start following your example if your way of playing seems designed to be fair and transparent which makes it fun for everyone. Also, not that I would recommend anyone resort to piracy, but having a copy of every codex, rule book & faq on your "iPad" helps mediate many issues.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/15 20:52:28
Hive Fleet Sorginak - 6,225 pts
Grey Knights and Inquisition - 8,084 pts
Steel Legion Mobile 666th - 3000 pts
Duke Sliscus' Private Strike Force - 4,161 pts
Deathwatch - 935 pts
-Taking on all comers. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 21:37:19
Subject: Re:Experiances with rule benders aka cheaters
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I've never found a polite way of saying "I think you are clearly taking advantage of my good nature/mental state with your model movement/measuring/scatter/that's not where that models was in the unit earlier, you can't use your 6" movement to move models around in the unit and have them go 8" or 9"!" so I generally find it is easier to default to, "I'm sorry I process things a little slower than you do, can you please leave your dice and tape measure on the table until I see them so I know what's going on?" I find slowing down the movement phase a little when need be & making sure that everything stays transparent as possible keeps everyone honest (even I re-check things from my own codex during the course of the battle to ensure I am doing it right every time I see a reaction of surprise from my opponent). Like wise I'll set my tape measure on the table next to the unit I am moving so it is very clear. People tend to start following your example if your way of playing seems designed to be fair and transparent which makes it fun for everyone.
Also, not that I would recommend anyone resort to piracy, but having a copy of every codex, rule book & faq on your "iPad" helps mediate many issues.
I'm gonna use that slow processing line. I hate when people do shady stuff but i feel like I don't care enough to call out acquaintances on it and cause a scene and that's the perfect way to combat it.
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