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Veterans with combi-weapons cost just as much as sternguard with combis both in five and ten man squads. only draw back is they do not have special ammo. With the devastation standard they can be just as powerfull.

On the topic of veterans, would you use them as a cc unit?

But you pay for the special ammo on Sternguard .... what are you paying for with veterans?

 Rex-Nine wrote:
On the topic of veterans, would you use them as a cc unit?

I have a few times. Can work really well as long as you have no problems getting them there... Land Raider seemed to work.

Pity combi weapons aren't slightly easier to get... even if just for one shot I might grab a new squad for plasma

If you want to go seriously OTT the errata lets you gave them all power weapons.

10 vets with power weapons and azreal in a land raider would be a hilarious point sink

Why would you buy combis when Vets can buy unlimited Meltaguns for the same points cost?

 TedNugent wrote:
Why would you buy combis when Vets can buy unlimited Meltaguns for the same points cost?

vets can't get unlimited melta. Only the Command Squad can.

Mythantor wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Why would you buy combis when Vets can buy unlimited Meltaguns for the same points cost?

vets can't get unlimited melta. Only the Command Squad can.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/Redfingers/Untitled_zps1c1af53c.jpg

TedNugent, that screenshot shows that Vets can't take *ANY* meltaguns. The reference in the middle refers to a COMBI-melta, which is why it has a hyphen.

Only 2 point cheaper than sternguard with no special ammo. If it was there i would had no problem switching my drop pod sternguard army into dark angels. Not now.

Woops again, sorry folks. forgot no special ammo.

So fail. How does every other Space Marine chapter get special ammo but the Dark Angels can't find any in their ancient frakking floating rock filled with dark-age technology?

Swings and roundabouts. Their bikers and Termies are better than everyone else's (Grey Knights, you can shut up) and they get more easily attainable, cheaper plasma. Frankly I'd rather have extra plasma than the special ammo in 6th.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
So fail. How does every other Space Marine chapter get special ammo but the Dark Angels can't find any in their ancient frakking floating rock filled with dark-age technology?

ITT marine player claims he is getting the short end of the stick.

Try playing a faction that lives in the warp but you get tabled because shiny silver marines somehow are more potent on YOUR OWN TURF.

I noticed the almost sternguard too... maybe Strictguard? Ehh?

If you would normally take your SG in a pod and dump them first turn in hopes of suicide bombing a tank or two, then these still work the same, they just aren't as threatening afterwards. Still not good to have 10 veteran marines in your backfield so they'll probably still draw reasonable fire.

You can also get a 5 mg podded command squad for 185 (i think), or 200 if you want the FnP. Still pretty expensive to throw away like that though.

I think 200 is not bad considering you get one Multi-Melta for that cost - good for killing most anything and reasonably survivable too.

You can also take fewer combis and take 3 power weapons. 10 guys, 3 PW, a few combis and 2 or 3 melta bombs.
now that I look at them I cant think of a effective load out for them other then pure cc or drop poding meltas.

 Rex-Nine wrote:
You can also take fewer combis and take 3 power weapons. 10 guys, 3 PW, a few combis and 2 or 3 melta bombs.
now that I look at them I cant think of a effective load out for them other then pure cc or drop poding meltas.

Drop-pod combi plasmas or flamers work well too - for 2+ units and big mobs respectively. It's all about plugging a gap in what your force can already comfortably take on.

the cheapest way to make them effective would be a libby with PFG, for a few points more you can use Ezekil and up their weapon skill. Azrael can give them a inval save.

Azrael can really boost their survival but with his point cost you should just go with terminators.

Ezekil will really boost them with boosted skill, and what ever powers you roll.

I like veterans with Azreal, they give him a way to deepstrike and keep up with the terminators he makes troops. Sure he could deepstrike with a tactical squad too, but we were talking about uses for veterans.

I wouldn't advocate taking Azreal to make vets better, but if you're looking for a place for him in a list they seem like a reasonable escort to me.

One unit of 10 vets deep striking in and combat squadding to alpha strike, wouldnt be a bad addition. Great for first blood. Also help drop the points by only giving 3 guys the combi weapons compared to sternguard. Dont have my book on me but can any get special weapons? they are a pretty decent threat that needs to be addressed. Still a denial unit in his back field. Throw in apower weapon or two and go to town.

GrimDork wrote:I wouldn't advocate taking Azreal to make vets better, but if you're looking for a place for him in a list they seem like a reasonable escort to me.

In a squad able to carry up to 10 PW? Pfft, insanity...wait...waaait. I probably wouldn't use that many but it's still an interesting idea.

Leth wrote:Dont have my book on me but can any get special weapons?

1 Heavy, 1 Special for every 5 models so indeed they can carry a pair of melta or plasma guns. Which is a bit more fire power than a Tactical squad can bring.

I use them a lot, usually with power weapons and storm shields. I had thoight about doing the shooter squad in a drop pod with storm shields as the big suicide squad.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I use them a lot, usually with power weapons and storm shields.

What exactly is the point of this unit? PW/SS is way too close to TH/SS deathwing in point cost, for 3+/3++ instead of 2+/3++ and an AP 3 power weapon instead of AP 2. All you gain is +1 attack from pistol/CCW, but are you really getting any advantage over the better quality attacks of the TH/SS unit?

I had thoight about doing the shooter squad in a drop pod with storm shields as the big suicide squad.

Why would you put a bunch of expensive storm shields in a suicide drop pod unit?

 Peregrine wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I use them a lot, usually with power weapons and storm shields.

What exactly is the point of this unit? PW/SS is way too close to TH/SS deathwing in point cost, for 3+/3++ instead of 2+/3++ and an AP 3 power weapon instead of AP 2. All you gain is +1 attack from pistol/CCW, but are you really getting any advantage over the better quality attacks of the TH/SS unit?

I had thoight about doing the shooter squad in a drop pod with storm shields as the big suicide squad.

Why would you put a bunch of expensive storm shields in a suicide drop pod unit?

The answer to both is: its fun. No one ever uses company veterans. I used them as a more easily buffed squad of tough guys before the codex change. More bodies requires more shooting. And the thought of having a squad of shooters running around with storm shields is an interesting one.

But I know the point of the game is not to have fun, I shall cease and desist my use of of this appallingly poor unit and stick to the accepted builds.

Sorry, I thought we were in the tactics forum, where units are discussed based on how well they win games and people generally say "it isn't the best, but I like it for fun reasons" if they're taking a less than optimal unit just because they want to. I should have remembered that we're in the fun forum where what matters is fun and we talk about "advantages" completely independently of how well the unit actually performs in a game.

Now that we've cleared up the misunderstanding, my favorite way of using them:

7-man squad:
* Storm shield, combat shield, storm bolter
* Storm shield, melta bombs
* Power fist
* Combi-flamer
* Plasma cannon
* No upgrades
* Dual lightning claws, storm shield, combat shield.
* Razorback dedicated transport with HBs.

this is a game. get over yourself.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
this is a game. get over yourself.

And it's just basic courtesy to explain that you're doing something "fun" and don't care about optimization when you're posting in the tactics forum. Believe it or not I actually was asking a genuine question about your post because I wasn't sure if I'd missed something that made your choice of upgrades a good one. And that's a question you could have avoided if you'd simply said "I know it's not optimal, but I think it's fun to do X" and made it clear that you weren't proposing an awesome game-winning choice.

Also, thanks for being so rude about it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
this is a game. get over yourself.

And it's just basic courtesy to explain that you're doing something "fun" and don't care about optimization when you're posting in the tactics forum. Believe it or not I actually was asking a genuine question about your post because I wasn't sure if I'd missed something that made your choice of upgrades a good one. And that's a question you could have avoided if you'd simply said "I know it's not optimal, but I think it's fun to do X" and made it clear that you weren't proposing an awesome game-winning choice.

Also, thanks for being so rude about it.

Don't feed the troll!

I thought tactics were about ways of using the resources at your disposal, so if he has that then how he could use it effectively would also qualify as a tactical discussion. Plus local Meta could make allvthe difference in what is useful. In this case not so much but in general something to consider.