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I have been thinking about the Ravenwing list quite a bit recently and surprised it has not received more attention. Ravenwing list is extremely potent bringing maneuverability, resilience and massive firepower.

When most people think about the list they instantly go to the Standard of Devastation. It gives bolters Salvo 2/4 and on bikes they always can fire 4 shots with their TL boltguns due to relentless. This is potent combination but many people don't relize the tactical flexibility it brings. The most commonly used list approximates this:

1850 Pts - Dark Angels Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1849

HQ: Sammael on Corvex
1 Sammael on Corvex,

HQ: Librarian
1 Librarian, + Increase Mastery Level x1 + Power Field Generator + Space Marine Bike

: Ravenwing Command Squad
2 Ravenwing Command Squad, + Ravenwing Apothecary
1 Ravenwing Apothecary,
1 Standard of Devastation,

1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron,
5 Ravenwing Biker, Meltagun x2+ Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike, + Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder, + Multi-melta + Typhoon Missile Launcher

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron (
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron, 0 pt
5 Ravenwing Biker, Meltagun x2 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike + Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder, + Multi-melta Typhoon Missile Launcher

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron
5 Ravenwing Biker, + Meltagun x2 Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike, 55 pts + Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder, Multi-melta + Typhoon Missile Launcher

Troops: Ravenwing Attack Squadron
1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron, 0 pts
5 Ravenwing Biker Meltagun x2 + Ravenwing Sergeant
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike, Multi-melta
1 Land Speeder, Multi-melta Typhoon Missile Launcher

Now looking at this list you instantly think low model count but its deceiving because each attack bike and land speeder operates as an independent units and the attack bikes are scoring and denial. Throw that in with Ravenwing Combat Squads and you can have up to 12 scoring units. 12 very mobile, jinking, scouting T5 scoring units. Not only that but they get near perfect firing efficiency. Very few shots wasted on overkill.

Combine this with scouting 12" and 4 of those MM are going to be in melta range on turn one, opening up transports and exposing the contents to massed bolter fire from the RAS.

This army has a devastating alpha strike, is fantastic in objective games, everything but the speeders can outflank so if you don't win turn one you can hide your precious banner.

I am having a tough time thinking of a TAC list that just wouldnt be completely tabled by turn 4. Daemons and 3x Helldrakes are a tough matchup for this list but outside of that I dont see how you beat it.. Just way too much tactical flexiblity and firepower to deal with IMO.

Any ideas?

It looks good except for one thing drop an attack squad and kit out a 5-6 man black knights squad. your remaining points go into a darkshroud and misc. upgrades. this give you a deadly assault unit to take on the tough nuts of an opposing army while allowing your biker gang to do damage.

 captain collius wrote:
It looks good except for one thing drop an attack squad and kit out a 5-6 man black knights squad. your remaining points go into a darkshroud and misc. upgrades. this give you a deadly assault unit to take on the tough nuts of an opposing army while allowing your biker gang to do damage.

Assault is an afterthought for this list. Moving 12" with turboboosting means you should never be charged. If you do your putting out 24 TL bolter shots. That's averaging 5-6 hits on overwatch. Assault units are decimated by this army. Also all the biikes have hit and run.

Yes and 12 Plasma gun shots a turn is rather helpful or 10 and a grenade that lowers their toughness no that bolters woud on 3 again increasing the utility of the banner.

Psst, don't put individual points costs..

About the army list however, it looks really tough to beat. Like you said, flyers look to be your only real problem, especially helldrakes, they will eat you.

Individual pt costs are GW's intellectual property and should be posted. GW could shut down this site.

The list is interesting and as said hard to deal with. You mentioned Daemons and Helldrakes. Necrons could also be a pain. Wraiths are hard to deal with even with plasma guns. A DLord with mss and weave can deal with Sammael in a challenge no matter what.

The biggest danger this list will face are shooting attacks that ignore their higher toughness (snipers, splinter fire, and tau rifles off the top of my head). Your fire support is a little light as well, running MM Typhoons commits you to being 24" or less from your targets and Speeders within 24" of anything with a gun is not a happy place to be. Just my two pence

The thing about the drakes is what is left on the table when they arrive? Lets say 2 drakes arrive on turn 2 and one on three. The Ravenwing has had 2 full turns to eviscerate the opponent if they won the first turn. If they did not then at best the Drakes killed 2 land speeders and 2 attack bikes.

Then the Ravenwing combat squads and shoots down at least 1 helldrake a turn. Remember your talking 8 MM, 8 Krak Missle shots, and 8 melta/plasma fire each turn. Even at BS1 your gonna land a few hits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Individual pt costs are GW's intellectual property and should be posted. GW could shut down this site.

The list is interesting and as said hard to deal with. You mentioned Daemons and Helldrakes. Necrons could also be a pain. Wraiths are hard to deal with even with plasma guns. A DLord with mss and weave can deal with Sammael in a challenge no matter what.

Wraiths actually fair badly against Ravenwing. Ravenwing can keep their distance at least for a short time and hammer them with bolter fire that doesnt care about an invulnerable save. Also highly unlikely a Necron Lord catches Sammael in order to challenge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also remember the MSU component. The Ravenwing can sacrifice and attack bike or 3 man squad each turn and still have tons scoring at the end of the game.

andystache wrote:
The biggest danger this list will face are shooting attacks that ignore their higher toughness (snipers, splinter fire, and tau rifles off the top of my head)

I had 12 bikers obliterated in a single round by a unit of Tau firewarriors + and a unit of vespids yesterday. (Though, my opponent had an insane ammount of luck opposed to an insane amount of bad luck on my side).

If I had combat squaded my ravenwing bikers, I think I would have retained half of them for round 2 so, I agree with the tactical advantage of biker MSU and will try that out next game.

Considering how my bikers were wasted very quikly and how feeble they feel sometimes, what do you think about replacing the standard for the FNP one? (in combination with the shroud). I wonder how much damage I would be able to do overall with retained bikers as opposed to strong output of damage in a single or two rounds.

The trade off by gaining 33% more survivability rather than x4 output in bolter firepower isnt even close. The Standard of Devastation is 20 points cheaper to boot. The key to this army is to stay out of rapid fire range and let your bolters outshoot your opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Remember at 24" 3 ravenwing bikers put out more firepower than 10 marines.

Agreed, makes sense.

I actually have to learn to keep my bikers back. I always have the reflex to scout forward with all of them since I have the ability to do so and I think this is basically a bad idea. Unless I have teleport homers to deliver to get terminators in safely, but in this case I could try to sneek in a 3 men biker group in an out of LoS location...

It sounds to me like you are really overestimating the power of ravenwing bikers. They are essentially T5 marines. Ravenwing became alot more potent, but most armies are going to be able to at least stand a chance against this list. Its still only 24 marines at 1850. And because you are taking the jetbike instead of the land speeder and no darkshrouds/black knights you have nothing to absorb heavy weapons fire.

Yeah the attack bikes and land speeders are key to deprive the enemy of transports so they cant match your speed. Anything else that is as fast will die to massive bolter fire.


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 Volkov wrote:
It sounds to me like you are really overestimating the power of ravenwing bikers. They are essentially T5 marines. Ravenwing became alot more potent, but most armies are going to be able to at least stand a chance against this list. Its still only 24 marines at 1850. And because you are taking the jetbike instead of the land speeder and no darkshrouds/black knights you have nothing to absorb heavy weapons fire.

Agreed that is where the MSU nature comes into play. T5 marines are far from impossible to kill, but you will never get the chance because the smart Ravenwing player will target those units initially either using their scout move to get MM in range or using outflank to get the initial strike. 12" move with 24" range means outflanking is very effective. The bikes will also be getting a jink save possibly enhanced by a darkshroud so they are significantly tougher than normal marines. Heavy weapons are usually clustered in squads like devastators or guard blobs. The most bikes each of those units will be able to kill is 3 due to combat squadding. The firing effeciencyy of the Ravenwing is that they will not be wasting shots, large concentrations of infantry like guard blobs will be wasting tons of shots to kill a attack bike or 3 man biker unit.

They are still marines so do die to normal fire a little harder due to T5 but I still fail enough 3 plus to make that not matter as much!, it is a very fluid and different play style to normal marines though which I love about them, the scout move can also catch a lot of players unware though I own around 50 bikers

The best counter to this army, without flyers, is a tac spam army with the banner, I countered my mates DA biker army with a LR achilles 30 tac marines and hyperios and pretty much tabled him first turn as I stole the intivative and rolled a LOT of dice at him taking out his banner, and a lot of his squads

I am going to try out a quad crusader list this weekend at 1750 with the banner as well, they kick out 24 shots each, plus 4 AC shots each but are av14 takes a lot more firepower to kill those then it does a squad of 6 bikers (less shots but less points. They are only holding scouts (25 of them) but thats up to 5 scoring units and they can assault ut of them, the banner is carried by 4 th ss termies and a normal one with a TDA libby so it has some CC punch to it

Pray you dont face demons or helldrakes.

A helldrake will probably kill two 3man squads a turn and demons with their abundance of ap3 flamers that auto wund on a 4 + lots of FlyingMC to vector strike you at ap3 will mince you.

 Volkov wrote:
It sounds to me like you are really overestimating the power of ravenwing bikers. They are essentially T5 marines. Ravenwing became alot more potent, but most armies are going to be able to at least stand a chance against this list. Its still only 24 marines at 1850. And because you are taking the jetbike instead of the land speeder and no darkshrouds/black knights you have nothing to absorb heavy weapons fire.

This is a really good point, guess what de splinter rifles do to them? Nom nom nom

 Volkov wrote:
It sounds to me like you are really overestimating the power of ravenwing bikers. They are essentially T5 marines. Ravenwing became alot more potent, but most armies are going to be able to at least stand a chance against this list. Its still only 24 marines at 1850. And because you are taking the jetbike instead of the land speeder and no darkshrouds/black knights you have nothing to absorb heavy weapons fire.

This is an excellent point and bears repeating. I run an 1850 Deathwing list that has 25 Terminators (9 of which have a 3++), to give you an example.

 Brock79 wrote:

 Volkov wrote:
It sounds to me like you are really overestimating the power of ravenwing bikers. They are essentially T5 marines. Ravenwing became alot more potent, but most armies are going to be able to at least stand a chance against this list. Its still only 24 marines at 1850. And because you are taking the jetbike instead of the land speeder and no darkshrouds/black knights you have nothing to absorb heavy weapons fire.

This is an excellent point and bears repeating. I run an 1850 Deathwing list that has 25 Terminators (9 of which have a 3++), to give you an example.

The difference between the Deathwing list and a Ravenwing is the tactical flexiblity. Ravenwing can scout, outflank, combat squad. The attached attack bikes and Land speeders are not attached at all, they are all independent units. Not only that should the RW player choose, he can split his 4 bike squads into 8 scoring units.

For example: 15 DE warriors fire their splinter rifles at a bike squadron. The RW player combat squadded his bikes so their 3 man units. 15 shots (remember their bikes so keeping in rapid fire range will be difficult.) nets you approx 10 hits. 5 will wound and lets be generous and say 2 fail their save. 1 bike remains and makes its morale. The second half of that squad fire back, getting 12 bolter shots, of which 11 hit due to TL. 8 wound netting 8 dead DE warriors. 6 if in cover. No army in hell can give up a 4 to 1 K/D ratio. The MSUing of the squads means every time you fire at a RW bike squad you are wasting shots. The RW is wasting nothing.

Also the RW will dictate when the opening salvo takes place in most cases due to the speed and scout/outflank. You will be forced to fire back with the remnants of your force while the RW player keeps his casualties low through MSU.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mythantor wrote:
Pray you dont face demons or helldrakes.

A helldrake will probably kill two 3man squads a turn and demons with their abundance of ap3 flamers that auto wund on a 4 + lots of FlyingMC to vector strike you at ap3 will mince you.

Already discussed helldrakes and daemons. They are effective counters yes, but not auto wins either.

Glocknall wrote:

For example: 15 DE warriors fire their splinter rifles at a bike squadron. The RW player combat squadded his bikes so their 3 man units. 15 shots (remember their bikes so keeping in rapid fire range will be difficult.) nets you approx 10 hits. 5 will wound and lets be generous and say 2 fail their save. 1 bike remains and makes its morale. The second half of that squad fire back, getting 12 bolter shots, of which 11 hit due to TL. 8 wound netting 8 dead DE warriors. 6 if in cover. No army in hell can give up a 4 to 1 K/D ratio. The MSUing of the squads means every time you fire at a RW bike squad you are wasting shots. The RW is wasting nothing.

Also the RW will dictate when the opening salvo takes place in most cases due to the speed and scout/outflank. You will be forced to fire back with the remnants of your force while the RW player keeps his casualties low through MSU.

But take DE warriors in a raider with night shields and splinter racks. You have to be 18" away to hit them, so they can move six and pow, double tap range.

 ghastli wrote:

Glocknall wrote:

For example: 15 DE warriors fire their splinter rifles at a bike squadron. The RW player combat squadded his bikes so their 3 man units. 15 shots (remember their bikes so keeping in rapid fire range will be difficult.) nets you approx 10 hits. 5 will wound and lets be generous and say 2 fail their save. 1 bike remains and makes its morale. The second half of that squad fire back, getting 12 bolter shots, of which 11 hit due to TL. 8 wound netting 8 dead DE warriors. 6 if in cover. No army in hell can give up a 4 to 1 K/D ratio. The MSUing of the squads means every time you fire at a RW bike squad you are wasting shots. The RW is wasting nothing.

Also the RW will dictate when the opening salvo takes place in most cases due to the speed and scout/outflank. You will be forced to fire back with the remnants of your force while the RW player keeps his casualties low through MSU.

But take DE warriors in a raider with night shields and splinter racks. You have to be 18" away to hit them, so they can move six and pow, double tap range.

DE is definitely a tough matchup, but their transports are paper and should fold as such.

I'd really be in favour of dropping the land speeders for more bikes, really.

Good list, but I think the speeders are a bad plan, as your only AV on the field they will die in a fire. the 4 speeders you have are a little past 300pts. With 300pts you could throw in some black knights or even a 5th bike squad with melta bike, and still have points left over. You may also want to consider what your plan is going to be for flying opponents. Also keep in mind that your command squad is only 3 bike and can only be in so many places at once. You can stretch out the coverage of the dakka banner by firing half your army that is near the banners, turbo boosting them, and then firing the other half.

I have to agree with Thaylen, if you want to bring speeders, bring MOAR speederz !
The Darkshroud is really useful to a ravenwing army as well and shouldn't be discounted
If you're taking speeders and have remaining FA slots, take them as Speeders Squadrons, just so that they can be scoring in The Scouring mission

Ahhh a list after my own heart, cept I have a detachment of guard for utility, 2 vendettas and some AT, so I could skimp on the speeders, I'm not completely sold on them yet...but then again I have never been in almost 9 years.

The speeders are there for alpha strike capability and long range shooting. This is not my list btw. Its a shell of some of the ravenwing lists ive seen. Again the speeders are here in this case to exaggerate the msu concept. When fully on the table this list has 17 seperate units. It compartmentalizes damage like no list out there

Glocknall wrote:
The speeders are there for alpha strike capability and long range shooting. This is not my list btw. Its a shell of some of the ravenwing lists ive seen. Again the speeders are here in this case to exaggerate the msu concept. When fully on the table this list has 17 seperate units. It compartmentalizes damage like no list out there

MSU lists tend to fold quickly when the enemy puts pressure on it. I'd like to see how it fares against a strong Necron list.

Ravenwing with the Dakka banner is a good list but is subject to hard counters.

OP I think you are seriously underestimating flamers and heldakes they are mobile enough the they will instant target the banner. Once the banner goes the Army's killing power is cut in half. Also nids can snipe your banner as well and leave you truffling against their flygrynts.

Love bike lists love that they are much better in 6th edition (DA and C:sm) and are very competitive but you have to get a bit lucky going through a tourney to avoid your hard counters.