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Well I finally got a hold of the new Tau Codex, and I am taking a look at some of the changes to find how I should adjust my lists. . .

I am tempted to use some of the new Marker Drones in my non devilfish squads. . .

12 Fire Warriors
Shas Ui Team Leader, HW Drone Controller with 2 Marker Drones

That costs 190 points and gets you 14 bodies, 12/24 Pulse Rifle Shots, and 2 Networked Marker Light Shots. . . This type of unit is pretty nasty because you should be able to use the fire warriors at a bs 4, or maybe even 5, (75% chance to hit with one / 25% for both) this will give you 1.74 marines dead at bs 4, or 2.18 at bs 5.

Now for crisis suits and their lowered prices, yes most of the crisis suits dropped about 5 points and the weapons also dropped a bit, but by letting us buy alot of goodies for them they might have actually went up in price. . .

The two new special weapon systems for the crisis suits are also very nice, giving us a rather hefty boost to our 18 inch range nastiness. . .

We got a 18 inch large blast weapon with the same strength and ap as a flamer, that ignore cover. . .

We also an assault 5 weapon that has an 18 inch range and a strength of 3, and an ap of 4 with divine guidance. These combine to make it an incredible anti-IG weapon and it is actually better versus marines than a plasma rifle. . .

Unfortunately they did not make any of these awesome weapons available to the Stealth Suits which would have been great!!!, the 18 inch range of those weapons would have given us a bit more cool factor for the new stealth suits. . .

As I find new things that catch my interest I will post them as well. . .

Taking a look at the Pirahna

These are incredible on paper, I have yet to see how they do in practise though. . .

A Squadron of up to 5 vehicles, that can be out fitted with most of the Vehicle Upgrades, however the only one that seem a reasonable purchase is the Decoy launchers, its cheap and very handy.

Now because I am a Math-Hammer kind of guy, I will break down the effectivness of these wonderful Vehicles with both burst cannons, and fusion guns. . .


300 points (325 with the decoy launchers)
5 Pirhana with Burst Cannons, and gun drones
15 Burst Cannons shots, 10 twin linked pulse carbine shots. . .


7.5 BC hits, 5.5 Pulse Carbine hits

8.58 wounded marines, 10.85 wounded guardsman

2.83 marines killed, 10.85 killed guardsman

1.19 pinning tests on marines, 4.59 pinning on guardsman

10 Gun Drones with Twin Linked Pulse Carbine
AV 10: 0.90 Glancing / 0.90 Penetrating
AV 11: 0.90 Glancing

Burst Cannons
AV 10: 1.23 glancing /1.23 Penetrating
AV 11: 1.23 glancing


325 points (350 with the decoy launchers)
5 Pirhana with Fusion Guns, and gun drones
5 Fusion Gun shots, 10 twin linked pulse carbine shots. . .



2.5 BC hits, 5.5 Pulse Carbine hits

2.08/3.63 wounded marines, 2.08/4.59 wounded guardsman

3.27 marines killed, 6.67 killed guardsman

1.19 pinning tests on marines, 4.59 pinning on guardsman

5 Fusion Guns at 6 inches or less
AV 10: 2.50 Penetrating
AV 11: 2.38 Penetrating
AV 12: 2.26 Penetrating
AV 13: 2.14 penetrating
AV 14: 1.78 penetrating


(Edited for Accuracy and seperated weapon functions for anti-vehicle performance. . .)

That costs 190 points and gets you 14 bodies, 12/24 Pulse Rifle Shots, and 2 Networked Marker Light Shots. . . This type of unit is pretty nasty because you should be able to fire the drones seperately improving the second ones accuracy and then giving you a 1.16 chance to hit with both and then giving you an average of 2.18 dead marines or 8.3 dead Imperial Guardsman if not rapid firing. . .

Drones never improve other markerdrones bs.

I would think that targetting arrays are definatly worth it on the piranhas esp the fusion ones!
Oh and fusion being....wel fusion means that Max S of the weapon happens to be 20, so you might see a fair few penetrating hits on AV14 once within 6" which considering it is a fast vehicle should not be impossible.

Thanks for the correction, I will edit the drone section. . .

I agree that the fusion guns can penetrate if closer, but I hate doing the math for 2d6. . .

Well I aint doing it

That said if fusion wants to take out tanks then it may aswell come within 6" if it is going to be within 12" anyway!
also the targetting array, +8% cost for +33% accuracy...Yes please.

ok I will do the 6 inch range arg. . . and here is why i don't bother with Targetting arrays. . .

75 points each for a Pirahna with Decoy Launchers, Targetting Array, Fusion Gun
375 points for a squadron of 5

70 points for a pirahna targetting array, & decoy launchers
350 points for a squadron of 5

Fusion Guns with Targetting Array at 6: 5 shots, 3.3 hits, 2.75 Marines Killed
AV 10: 3.3 penetrating
AV 11: 3.14 penetrating
AV 12: 2.98 penetrating
AV 13: 2.82 penetrating
AV 14: 2.35 penetrating

Burst Cannons with Targetting array:
15 shots, 10 hits, 6.6 marines wounded, 2.2 marines killed, 8.35 Imperial Guard Killed

Exactly how good are Sting Wings?

MEQ: Marine or Equivalent
GEQ: Imperial Guard or Equivalent

11 Sting Wings (10 + strain leader): 182 points

12 inch deployment, 12 inch flight
12 inch shooting range : Most Likely Shooting on the 2nd turn

12 Inch Range, Strength 5, AP 3
11 Sting Wings Shooting at Marines
5.5 hits: 4 dead marines

11 Sting Wings shooting at Imperial Guard
5.5 hits: 4.59 dead Imperial Guard

During Assault
5.5 hits on marines at initiative 5
0.59 MEQ Killed

5.5 hits on Imperial Guard at initiative 5
1.81 GEQ killed

Wha? did you somehow prove arrays are not good because if you did I don't see it.
You added 6.7% to the cost and killed 33% more marines, seems a fair trade to me. (with the fusion weapon)

Not that the piranhas function is to kill marines, its armour your after.

Can you show the math on how the Cyclic Ion blaster is better than plasma at marine killing? It only penetrates armor on WOUND rolls, not hit rolls, so Im missing out on the increase in wounding in my figures. Also, I was under the understanding that stingwings were in squads of 10 max. I dont disbelieve you, but 11 troops is such an odd number. I also hear that the effectiveness of Kroot and Hounds went up in Close Combat (do to Initiative changes) have you done any work regarding that yet? Also, piranhas seem a waste going against marines, period. For 2/3 of the points of a BC squad, I can get 6 stealth suits. They kill 2 marines themselves, unaided. Toss in a pair of markerlights, and that increases to 3 1/3. Fusion blasters, the weapon most people love on Piranhas, seems a waste to me. It would take quite alot (and Im not talking math, Im talking tactics) to convince me that the fusion blaster is worth taking. All the marine players in my area turtle. Its nigh impossible to kill troops at 12" without getting blasted by return fire, unless youre using stealth suits or jet packers with handy terrain. Vehicles are usually with that turtle, and if they arent, the trusty, versatile Hammerhead can do the job just fine. A squad of 5 Piranhas takes up alot more room than a hammerhead does on the board, so theyre easier to hit by the enemy. In addition, being an AV11 opentopped vehicle, a marine can start blowing your Squad away first turn regardless of cover with a whirlwind, which he's taking if he knows he is fighting Tau. All that being said, I REALLY want to use Piranhas, so if youve got ways to overcome what seem to me serious deficiencies, Id love to hear them.

You also havent reported on the effectiveness of sniper drones. I have a feeling that those might be the new unsung heros of the codex.

It is not that hard Aunshiva. all 6s are ap1, as you wound on 5+ this means 50% of your wounds are ap1.

I think you can get it from that easily enough.

Also I am going blind agianst from the above post, use the ENTER KEY!!! ALOT......then use it MORE....then go reread your post and use the ENTER KEY MORE....then we can actually read the post. Thanks

Did anyone else notice the Flamer could be purchased as "twin-linked"? How does that work out?

Hm...the other thing that popped out at me - Ejection system for 15 points and Stimulant Injector fo 10. I'll take "Feel no pain", please.

I'm rethinking Piranhas (I hated them at first), I think two squadrons of 1 with fusion blaster and targeting array to use as tank hunters (against stuff that would normally go indirect, or where I can flank for rear shots on leman russes) and objective grabbers, similiar to how I use land speeders in my marine list.

Ion blasters (IIRC) were more effective than plasma single shot, but were outclassed by doubletapping plasma. Right now the question I'm asking myself is it more efficient to have a BS4 commander with Plasma/CIB/Targeting Array/HW Multi-tracker or TL Plasma/CIB/HW Multi-tracker

Kroot are slightly more effective, as hounds are now I5.

As per the main rulebook, twinlinking template weapons allows you to re-roll the "to wound" roll. While a crisis suit with two flamers does not sound like the best use of points, it does seem like a cool idea.

<div class="NTForums_Quote">Posted By vsurma on 03/22/2006 9:21 AM<br>It is not that hard Aunshiva. all 6s are ap1, as you wound on 5+ this means 50% of your wounds are ap1.

I think you can get it from that easily enough.

Also I am going blind agianst from the above post, use the ENTER KEY!!! ALOT......then use it MORE....then go reread your post and use the ENTER KEY MORE....then we can actually read the post. Thanks</div><br><br>

:blinkblink: Are you saying my post is unreadable? Wow. I never thought that a post that utilized punctuation and non ALL CAPS sentences would prove difficult for people to read. Ill be sure to break my posts into bullet point format for easy digestion by the ADD masses.

And yes, of course, AP1 50% of the time. How asinine of me to not notice. :fails reflex save vs egg. Gets it on his face.:

Its nice that you have used punctuation but a post that LOOKS like a 3 page sentance just puts me off trying.

Since it came up, here are the numbers as far as I can tell for the CIB with BS 3, 4, and 5 (don't know if the 3/5 can happen - no new 'dex, but just in case... ).

All vs marines.

BS 3: 5 shots = 5/2 hits
5/12 'DG' + (5/12 wound * 1/3 fail save) = 5/12 + 5/36 = 15/36 + 5/36 = 20/36 = 5/9th of a dead marine

BS 4: 5 shots = 10/3 hits
10/18 'DG' + (10/18 wound * 1/3 fail save) = 10/18 + 10/54 = 30/54 + 10/54 = 40/54 = 20/27th of a dead marine

BS 5: 5 shots = 25/6 hits
25/36 'DG' + (25/36 wound * 1/3 fail save) = 25/36 + 25/108 = 75/108 + 25/108 = 100/108 = 25/27th of a dead marine.

KW

Which makes it a pretty decent marine killer.

Assualt cannon only kills 0.81 marines a turn
CIB at 0.926

Weapon that is better than an assualt cannon......yep I'll take a dozen thanks.

Vsurma, unfortunately you can only have one per army,

But we can have the other special weapons and equipment. . .
Air Burst Weapon: Range 18, Strength 4, AP 5, Large Blast, ignores cover

Weapon that is better than an assualt cannon......yep I'll take a dozen thanks.

Until you realize that against vehicles, the CIB is 100% useless while the Assault Cannon is the best gun in the game.

How about this for a marine hunter, take a monat Crisis Shas'vre with targeting array, CIB, plasma rifle, HW multi-tracker, for just 85 points. I don't think the ejection system would be a good idea, the model is too cheap to bother and needs to operate close to the enemy. I'm waffling on the stimulant injector as I'd like to keep the point cost of the model as low as possible.

Wow I'm tired, I completly missed Nobody's post of an almost identical suit config, I think for anything but a Shas'O, the targetting array completly outclasses TL although regular crisis should probably stick with 2 guns and MT.

I will agree that if you have sufficient anti-vehicle punch in the form of pirahna's with fusion guns, hammer heads, or something else.

You should really think about using the the CIB, and maybe the Airbursting Fragmentation Projector as well, they both will give you great anti-infantry punch. . . My only complaint with them is that the range is shorter than I would like. . .

Air Burst Weapon: Range G18, Strength 4, AP 5, Large Blast, ignores cover

You forgot the G, thats rather important.

Interestingly, in my shop-provided and translated "codex", AFP is an Assault 1 weapon.

As for CIB, imho it is a useless weapon...