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In a local tournament this weekend, we had some new players come in, which is always a good thing. However, two of them were rusty, to say the least. One was so confused by only really having played against a Necron army that he had no idea what he was doing against another Marine army, the other had about two games under his belt and borrowed an army to play in the tournament. Between slow play and constantly saying they had no idea what they were doing, I felt bad to be a competitve player. When one was going to hit my Land Raider with an autocannon, I recommended him that it wouldn't do anything. Between the advising and the rules explanations, I think I may have screwed myself out of a couple points, frusrrating because I missed third place by one point.

Where do you draw the line between being a good guy and a tournament player?

I actually had to cut back on helping my opponent after a couple games where I helped someone out and then made a mistake and they shut me down. :(

That being said, I will sometimes still be helpful, although often after the game to give them tips for next time.

I would always be happy to assist with any rules that they might not be up on, and stats and whatnot if I knew the army.

But tactical help I would be loath to do so, unless it was really one-sided, and even then it depends on the overall tournament situation.

It's a tricky dilemma to be sure.

In the last tournament I played in I had a similar situation. New guy, playing orcs, it was his 4th game, the last game of a 3 game tournament. And his first actual game ever was in the store before the tournament started.

I felt like I was kicking a puppy. I was even worse because the game was kill points, so to try to increase my overall score, I needed to finish my shooting after "last turn" was called instead of just shaking his hand and calling it.

I tried to explain not just the rules, but why I was doing stuff. Explaining the thoughts behind the drop sternguard, and pointing out the risks and flaws behind it. "I'm dropping right behind your war boss, and get first blood and slay the warlord, knowing full well that they are going to die. If you have a tighter deployment, you can prevent this in other games." Or pointing out what other armies are doing. Like letting the Orc player know that I had just been worked over by a guy with four battlewagons, and that he might want to talk to him for more specific advice.

I don't pull punches in a tournament. I do try (always) to be polite and helpful. If it looks like I'm crushing my opponent, I try to focus their attention of what they are doing well, or where your luck holds. When you wipe out 9/10th of a squad and the last guy stubbornly refuses to run, focus on his defiance, not his slain comrades. If someone wants to jump straight into the deep end and start playing in tournaments, you can learn a lot. But you are going to get hammered while you learn. People need to know that going in.

Teaching in friendly games I bring sub-par varied lists. Not a luxury when I'm playing competitively.

I felt bad for seeming to be the jerk tournament guy. I am extremely competitve which is well-balanced with the fact that I am a terrible player. When I win, its almost an accident. I don't have tons of cash to throw at the hobby, so winning the few prizes I have is a nice way to pad the army budget a bit.

I just felt that if one attends a tournament, one should know roughly some of what they are doing. I don't memorize my codex, but certain things have stuck in the ole brain. But to have to walk them through how armor penetration works and constantly referring to the codex was a bit tedious.

Maybe I was just a bit miffed that I worked all day coaching two players and didn't take home anything to show for a long day at the FLGS.

Yeah, on one hand new players really shouldn't show up to a tournament: especially with prizes involved. Instead they should spend a day at the store playing people and getting the rules down. On the other hand, sometimes people know they only learn when games are on hard mode. As long as people realize this and still go down playing more power to them. Some guys I've met think only tournament days are when they can get a day's worth of gaming in...not the rest of the week/month when the store is open

I would help explain any rules, but I would still show no mercy, tournaments are for bringing your best, not for learning how to play.

 mrwhoop wrote:
Some guys I've met think only tournament days are when they can get a day's worth of gaming in...not the rest of the week/month when the store is open

FWIW I literally can't get away from my house for a full day of gaming more often than about once a month. Which nicely lines up with my FLGS' tournament schedule.

rigeld2 wrote:

 mrwhoop wrote:
Some guys I've met think only tournament days are when they can get a day's worth of gaming in...not the rest of the week/month when the store is open

FWIW I literally can't get away from my house for a full day of gaming more often than about once a month. Which nicely lines up with my FLGS' tournament schedule.

agreed. Many people have limited time to play and organized play gets them the most bang for their buck.

The simple truth of most smaller tourneys is there are people who are learning to play. And usually those people shake out to lower tables after game 1 or 2.

If you said "know how to play or go home noob" you would find much lower attendance at a ton of events.

That being said, a TO needs to know his participants and sometimes trainer tourneys are appropriate which follow the format but are there to help people learn.

I don't think tourneys should ban people who are new or are not super experienced from playing. Someone could play every weekend and due to his opponent pool never have faced a dark elder or sisters army. He may find himself in the dark because of it not because he is a noob, but no one neat him plays them. I still haven't played a tyrannic player in 6th edition and it has almost been a year. If I was paired with one in a tourney, I would probably have a lot of annoying questions as the game goes as well as be rusty on nod FAQs which could possibly allow a lot of wrong rules to happen.

Tourneys are different things to different people and for many, getting 3 games in is all they expect.

I have two perspectives on this. The first being that I played in my first tournament after only being in the hobby for about a month. This was at the beginning of 4th Ed, and I think that helped a bit because everyone was kinda adjusting to the new rules. That being said, I learned a ton playing that day and even won a game.

Now onto the second perspective as having TO'd 40k events back in the day. I would always keep an eye on new players just to make sure the opponent wasn't getting too frustrated. There is a balance to making sure everyone feels welcome and you have to try to make sure everyone is having a good time (never happens but you have to at least make the attempt). Case in point If there was a bi round because someone just rage-quit, had to leave ect. I would generally try to give the bi to the newb that just got clubbed like a baby seal. It gives them a minute to breath and regroup.

As a player I don't mind helping out new players. I like to point out what I am doing and why. I never would have gone easy on them in a tournament unless my dice/mistakes/bad match ups had caused me to be out of contention for prizes and at that point I was there to play a few more games and have a good time.

At this point I have moved on from GW games, but in any game you need new blood to keep it alive and someones experience at their first tournament can have a huge impact on their overall impression of the game and the hobby. If your playing the new-guy at a 20 person FLGS saturday tournament be nice, show them the ropes and help them have a good time too. It will pay dividends in the end.