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Is this a viable model. For 212 pts you get 6 S8 shots. (Warp Field, Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sacs, 2* Venom Cannons).

Sadly, if you take 2 VC, it will count as a single twin-linked VC.

If it was legal it would be great.

Then definietly not worth it. HMMM have to go back to the drawing board. However I do like the Carnifex with Venom Cannon and Barbed STrangler though. But the Barbed Strangler seems kind of a waste on a HT with VC since it's only S5.

Not really, the only real antitank weapon that the tyrant can take is the DS to suplement the VC.

Is that S7 blast really going to do so much that it is not better to just take a anti infantry weapon in its stead?

You will run out of armoured targets sooner or later.

BS/dev let you take out infantry once armoured targets are gone.

You cannot really go wrong with a tyrants guns, aslong as 1 of them is a VC then the others work fine in a supporting role regardless of whether you take DS/Bs or devs. Though if I ever see a tyrant with spinefists....well

Actually, DS is one of the worst you can do, and BS is not much better.

The Tyrant has 3 attacks base and BS3 - 4 with upgrade!!! You should always use this!!

No you should not! That is just silly.

Sure if your going to put devs on a less attack same bs same S model then yes you would be wasting the tyrants potential but just because it is there does not mean that is the defining factor on the tyrants role!

If you put a VC on a tyrant and decide it is going to be dedicated to antitank then what the heck is the 18" range devourer going to do for you?

DS is for dedicated antitank tyrant.

I would not recommend one myself but I won't bite someones head off if that is the direction they choose to go, it does make tactical sense depending on the models role.

Personally I went with VC/dev myself but as I run a choir army I am starting to consider the BS, esp since the tyrant generally goes after AV10 while the fexs start with the heavier stuff, if there are speeders or vypers present then that is what the tyrant wants to kill, as such the dev does little since they rarely come close enough. The BS would actually help here, S5 blast means 2 S5 hits on vypers which is not bad.

Better than nothing atleast and against infantry I am strating to feel that a kill or 2 more I might get from the dev might not be worth as much as the pinning the BS can cause and don't tell me your passing all your pinning tests on minus 4-6 ld.

You really do have to use all of the Tyrant attacks to your advantage. Thats one of its primary strengths!

I might give one a BS in a choir list for the pinning shot, but never otherwise.

<div class="NTForums_Quote">Posted By vsurma on 03/23/2006 11:21 AM<br>No you should not! That is just silly.

Sure if your going to put devs on a less attack same bs same S model then yes you would be wasting the tyrants potential but just because it is there does not mean that is the defining factor on the tyrants role!

If you put a VC on a tyrant and decide it is going to be dedicated to antitank then what the heck is the 18" range devourer going to do for you?

DS is for dedicated antitank tyrant.

I would not recommend one myself but I won't bite someones head off if that is the direction they choose to go, it does make tactical sense depending on the models role.

Personally I went with VC/dev myself but as I run a choir army I am starting to consider the BS, esp since the tyrant generally goes after AV10 while the fexs start with the heavier stuff, if there are speeders or vypers present then that is what the tyrant wants to kill, as such the dev does little since they rarely come close enough. The BS would actually help here, S5 blast means 2 S5 hits on vypers which is not bad.

Better than nothing atleast and against infantry I am strating to feel that a kill or 2 more I might get from the dev might not be worth as much as the pinning the BS can cause and don't tell me your passing all your pinning tests on minus 4-6 ld.</div><br><br>

You have a point, but I am still dubious. One thing in your favor is the BS 4. Having more pinning in the psychic choir is nice.

On the other hand, with VC and Devourers you can light up speeders and vypers very nicely.

Care to run the numbers on Deathspitters vs Devourers against AV 10 or 11 skimmers?

Well the main difference is against vypers, the devs wont be in range but the DS might be unless the field is really in the opponents favour.

Anyway DS is S7 so 3+ to glance while devs are only s5 so 5+ to glance though with 3* times the shots this means you are getting 1 glance on the devs for every 0.66 glances against av10

Against av11 its 4+ to glance on the DS and 6+ on the devs so they are equal.

The main difference is that the DS can glance AV12 and has the range to do it.

Another bonus for DS that I didn't notice if it was mentioned is that it is a blast weapon so against open topped vehicles it gets two hits to roll for penetration each time it hits so you get double the number of chances to penetrate on open topped since open topped vehicles are vulnerable to blasts.

I'm sorry, but anyone who puts a Barbed Strangler or a Deathspitter on a Hive Tyrant is making a huge mistake no matter what type of list they are bringing.

Seriously. I can't believe this is even being discussed. Many people in this thread are talking about the 18" range of the Devourer like it is some hindrance that means they will never be shot, yet they don't hesitate to refer to the effect of the "choir" (that requires all the Screamers to be within 18" of the enemy).

So which is it? Can the Tyrant get within 18" of the enemy to use his Devourer/Scream or can't he? Because if you don't think he can get within 18", then you may as well not be taking Psychic Scream on him too.


I don't care what the situation is, what the army list is, what the terrain set up is, etc, etc, etc. For the points that GW has assigned the Deathspitter and the Barbed Strangler for a Tyrant you have to be absolutely insane to ever think they are worth it.

In 40k, spending points on inefficient choices is simply game suicide. If battlefield roles (or potential unit effectiveness) regardless of points value were all that mattered, then everyone would be absolutley pumping up every unit/vehicle they have with every option they could get their hands on.

But spending points on an inefficient weapon/upgrade hurts your army all around because it leaves you with less points with which to purcahse actual effective combinations.

Well obviously first the tyrant is out of range and firing only the VC and possible the BS/DS if it has one, only later turn 2-3 normally will the screams and devs be in range.

I don't care what the situation is, what the army list is, what the terrain set up is, etc, etc, etc. For the points that GW has assigned the Deathspitter and the Barbed Strangler for a Tyrant you have to be absolutely insane to ever think they are worth it.

Well if you are happy with your S5 guns when firing at AV12 tanks then good for you, in this case "some people" might actually prefer a weapon that has a chance to hurt the enemy.

I am not saying I would go this route, I run the VC/dev tyrant but I do see the uses of both the BS and DS though I don't see myself going the DS route, BS on the other hand I am considering, sometimes pinning a unit is worth more than an extra kill.

Yea I think I left out the open topped factor on the DS, helps against vypers, piranhas, heck even a basilisk.

Well if you are happy with your S5 guns when firing at AV12 tanks then good for you, in this case "some people" might actually prefer a weapon that has a chance to hurt the enemy.

I am not saying I would go this route, I run the VC/dev tyrant but I do see the uses of both the BS and DS though I don't see myself going the DS route, BS on the other hand I am considering, sometimes pinning a unit is worth more than an extra kill.

But the HT already has a Venom Cannon to deal with armored targets. Taking a Barbed Strangler is a poor use of point and the Tyrants stats no matter how you look at it.

Using a HT to be a pure tank hunter is a waste of the statistics inherent in the unit, pure and simple. Barbed Stranglers fit with a Carnifex's statistics, but the same cannot be said (especially for their price) on a Hive Tyrant.

And remember that open-topped vehicles can be penetrated by a Venom Cannon, so they really shouldn't be an issue. Certainly not worth taking a sub-standard weapon for.


Seriously. This may be shocking, but not *every* choice in an army list is worthwhile.

A Barbed Strangler on a Tyrant is such a case. Deathspitters are never, ever, ever a good idea. It seems as though their points value in the codex was established under the 3rd edition guise of blast placement. 4th edition dramatically reduces the number of hits a blast weapon can achieve in most circumstances.

I think they don't really care about the blast placement, as they are mainly using that for open topped vehicles.

Still, trading 3 S5 rerolling to hit and wound shots for 1 S7 small blast does seem to be a suckers game.


As something else I had a thought with. What about VC and Strangler for a zilla/choir list on the walking/Shadows with Guard tyrant? Taking shots of opportunity against vehicles or pinnable troops as needed? That would allow him to sit back further, not sure if that is an advantage.

Probably not, come to think about it. Those guard are useful for blocking LOS

Your trading 6 actually

As something else I had a thought with. What about VC and Strangler for a zilla/choir list on the walking/Shadows with Guard tyrant? Taking shots of opportunity against vehicles or pinnable troops as needed? That would allow him to sit back further, not sure if that is an advantage.

Yep, I am actually thinking of changing my devourer on the walking tyrant to BS to accompany the VC.
Really need to pin that Ulthwe seer council (I think).....(yet to figure out what to do with it once its pinned)

Yakface, I agree that venom cannon/TL-devourer is the best setup for shooty tyrant. Devourers and VC take advantage of the high number of attacks that tyrant has vs. bs/death spitter which reduce it down to one shot. However, I think there is one exception where the tyrant with barbed strangler and tl-devourer could be better. Its in a godzilla list.
Here's my arguments:
1. Most godzilla lists are played at 1500 pts where they are the most effective. I will assume a 1500 pt game
2. Assume standard setup of 2 gunfexes, 3 zoas, a flying tyrant with tl-devourers, 3 dakka fexes.
3. How to arm walking tyrant? Standard option would be VC/TL-Devourer?
4. However, at 1500 do you need the anti-tank firepower of Venom Cannon on tyrant? You already have 2 strength 10 VC, 3 warp blasts, 24 shots of strength 6 devourers, and 12 shots of strength 5 devourers.
5. Range question, you're warp blast and devourers are shorter range...not a big deal against skimmers and smaller board. Could be an issue.
6. Since you're employing psychic screams and hoping for pinning, I believe that a third barbed strangler on tyrant is pretty good. You'll be firing this one from turn one. You can use your dakka fexes against vehicles if they are in range. The way I figure is dakka fex generates 6 hits in theory. Tyrant with one tl-devourer generates about 5 hits. Against troops, difference between strength 5 vs. strength 6 with reroll is almost negligible. So in essence, you're trading one guarantee hit for a change to drop a large ordinance blast down.
7. At 1850, you probably need that third venom cannon though...
8. So at 1500, a barbed strangler/tl-devourer tyrant could be pretty good.

I still would not drop the VC though, although I am probably paranoid with my antitank (too many games against mech eldar)

I would rather VC/BS myself.

But I agree with your logic.