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So lets say I cast an offensive spell through a Woldwarden via Geomancy but I want to boost the roll (to hit or damage, either will apply). Does the Warlock use a Fury point or does the Woldwarden generate one? The wording suggests to me that it is the Warlock who uses Fury but I would like to be sure.

Thanks in advance.

 Lukus83 wrote:
So lets say I cast an offensive spell through a Woldwarden via Geomancy but I want to boost the roll (to hit or damage, either will apply). Does the Warlock use a Fury point or does the Woldwarden generate one? The wording suggests to me that it is the Warlock who uses Fury but I would like to be sure.

Thanks in advance.

No, its the warbeast that generates the fury to boost. You can't spend fury to boost things outside that model's activation.

Isn't Geomancy actually the Woldwarden casting the spell and not the Warlock? Its not an Arc Node or anything like that.

If the Woldwarden is actually the caster then it would be him that you force to boost the spell.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Isn't Geomancy actually the Woldwarden casting the spell and not the Warlock? Its not an Arc Node or anything like that.

If the Woldwarden is actually the caster then it would be him that you force to boost the spell.

Geomancy:
Once per activation while in its controller's control area, this model can be forced to cast one of its warlock's spells with a COST of 3 or less. This model's controller is considered to have cast the spell but this model is its point of origin. When making a magic attack roll, this model uses it's controller's FURY. This model cannot cast spells with a RNG of SELF or CTRL

Hmmm, well thats a sticky situation.

The part about the warlocks FURY is that there is no other baseline to measure offensive spells against. So as a mechanical solution the designers just decided to use the warlock's FURY stat as the number to add to 2d6 rather than assigning a Magic [x] stat to the geomancing model.

Let's break it down bit by bit, that helps:

Geomancy:
Once per activation while in its controller's control area, this model can be forced to cast one of its warlock's spells with a COST of 3 or less. ...

So as can be seen highlighted here, the Geomancer is being forced to cast a spell. It is the spellcaster here, the spell comes from the warlock's spell list, but the warbeast is the one actually performing the spell casting.

... This model's controller is considered to have cast the spell but this model is its point of origin. ...

The highlighted part is important. Note that it is past tense. When in the now of casting, the warbeast is doing the work, but when you look at aftermaths of the spell, you go to the warlock. In Circle there are two things that matters in that, and that is the case of upkeeps (since the warlock is considered to have cast the spell in the prevous tense, the warlock has to pay for it to keep going.) The other is the case of spells like Carnivore, which refer to "this model" (the spellcaster), which refers to the warlock save in effects that care about point of origin.

When making a magic attack roll, this model uses it's controller's FURY.

Note that it states here that the warbeast is making the magic attack roll, and simply uses the warlock's FURY stat to determine its accuracy. It can boost these with forces since forcing for attacks is a general case, not specific to ranged or melee attacks.

This model cannot cast spells with a RNG of SELF or CTRL

Again, this only works as a sentence if the Geomancer is the model casting the spell. It goes with the logic of the rest of the rule (the warbeast casts a spell) save these kinds of spells it is forbidden to do so.

And stuff.

Well yeah, FURY in all caps referes to the stat of the Warlock/Warbeast. Fury not all caps refers to actual points of Fury on the model.

You arn't using the Warlocks Fury to cast the spell, you are forcing the Woldwarden to cast it. But you use the FURY stat for the To Hit roll.

And anything that would prevent the Warlock from casting a spell would prevent the Woldwarden from using Geomancy(as the Warlock is the one casting the spell)



Given that the Warlock is who is casting the spell, I'm leaning towards the Woldwarden not being able to be forced to boost.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Given that the Warlock is who is casting the spell, I'm leaning towards the Woldwarden not being able to be forced to boost.

No, the Warlock isn't casting the spell, the Warlock is considered to have casted it for all the reasons that Blaque mentioned.

The warbeast is casting the spell so it can boost it in the normal way that it can boost any hit roll.

Blaque's interpretation is entirely correct.

Ahh, I see. That makes sense now.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Given that the Warlock is who is casting the spell, I'm leaning towards the Woldwarden not being able to be forced to boost.

No, the Warlock isn't casting the spell, the Warlock is considered to have casted it for all the reasons that Blaque mentioned.

The warbeast is casting the spell so it can boost it in the normal way that it can boost any hit roll.

Blaque's interpretation is entirely correct.

As a side note, this has been confirmed by the Infernals at the proper way of doing things.

Thanks all. Problem solved.