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Ok so I took everyones advice I got the Blood Angels book and some units. I was playing my friend who was playing regular marines. It was a 750 pt game since we are both starting out. He had two 10 man tac squads a chap and a 4 man term squad with lightning claws. I had a scout aquad, assault squad, tac squad, bikes, and chap with death comp. Only reason is cause thats pretty much all the guys i have.

Anyone have any ideas on how to beat him because he is using the advantages and disadvantages so he has counter attack and furious charge so the only advantage i wouls have had is lost. Plus he uses his chaplians litney of hate with his counter attack and the lightning claws ability to re-roll missed wound rolls, I sort of got my *donkey*kicked i only took out one of his tac aquads.

Any help would be appriciated thanks.

Remember that when a unit uses Counterattack, it doesn't count as charging. This means it does not get +1 attack, it does not get to use Furious Charge, and it does not get to use Litanies of Hate.

Also it looks like his terminator squad is too small. If it's supposed to be a terminator assault squad he needs one more terminator. If it's supposed to be a retinue then it has to be based off of normal terminators.

oh woops i meant 5 man term squad all with chain fists

No, they're a command squad for the chaplain. 4 Termies + Chaplain = Command Squad.

Well, the problem with Termies is that DC can't quite chew them up the way it does everything else. You need some AP2 firepower to get rid of the Termies. Then the DC can eat everything else.

Ok so I told him and this is what he responds with "treat a counter attack as an Assault Move",  page 74 of the 4th Codex, anything I would gain from a normal assault also applies to a counter assault.      So any chance you know where it proves him wrong?

Ok so I told him and this is what he responds with "treat a counter attack as an Assault Move", page 74 of the 4th Codex, anything I would gain from a normal assault also applies to a counter assault. So any chance you know where it proves him wrong?

Well, for starters, the Counterattack entry itself states that you do not get the +1 attack bonus for charging. So no +1 attack there.

The Furious Charge entry states 'In a player turn in which they charged into close combat...'. He did not charge. He made an Assault Move, but he did not declare a charge. So it is not a charge for the purposes of Furious Charge. Similarly, Litanies of hate uses exactly the same phrase, 'On a player turn in which he charged into close combat...'. He didn't declare the charge, and it's not his player turn (since you are the one that charged him in your turn), so he doesn't get to use either rule.

For further proof, the Assault rules on p37 state very clearly what you do in a charge. First, you declare the charge. Then, you move models that are charging their Assault Move distance. Assault Moves are thus something you do as part of a charge - they do not equate to a charge. Essentially, when you charge, you make an assault move. That does not mean that when you make an assault move, then you are charging.

My only tactical advice would be to turboboost the bikes up to the termies to tie them up as long as you can, while the rest of your army goes after his tac squads.

Once you kill them, you can decide based on how many termies he has and whether your chappie is still alive whether to charge the termies or just stay away from them.

Pick up a Baal Predator and make it use the Machine Spirit on the Assault Cannons.
You hit on 5+, but 6's are rending and the twinlinked means you get to reroll more to attempt to get 6's.
Chew him up.

Ok Im all out of ideas I point out the exact wording to him and he tells me assault and charge are the same thing, and uses a bunch of other excuses I dont know what to tell him.

Point him at this thread. Or throw him on the You Make the Call forum.

The wolves will be at him shortly and you won't have to worry about it anymore.

Ok Im all out of ideas I point out the exact wording to him and he tells me assault and charge are the same thing, and uses a bunch of other excuses I dont know what to tell him.

If you give us his excuses, we can rebut them better.

But simply put, he's wrong. An assault move is not a charge. When you declare a charge, you make an assault move, but they are not the same thing. If he can't understand that, then you may have trouble explaining things because his comprehension may be limited. In that case, you can simply say that both Furious Charge and Litanies of Hate refer to his Player Turn. They can only occur on his player turn, which is a defined entity on p14. 'One game turn comprises two player turns'. If it's not his player turn (and it won't be, because you did the charging), then he cannot use these abilities, no matter whether he thinks a charge is an assault move or not.

Ha ok so he finally gave up but had to add at the end "fine ill use another trick if that makes you happy" oh well. Thanks for the help guys.