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I am finally beginning to flesh out the bits and pieces for my Space Marine Chapter, and I am having some issues trying to make the backstory fit.

I have a couple questions though, on general practices amongst the Imperium's command structure and some vague speculations. I am going to try and separate them out into some general areas so this doesn't get too confusing.

Imperium Command
1. In the IoM, who is in charge of investigating a space marine chapter for possible renegade status? I understand that the Inquisition is in charge of handling heresy, but I am unsure if they just investigate everything.
2. In the Adeptus Mechanicus, is it possible for copies of sacred STC blueprints to be created without their knowledge (i.e stealing technology?). Or are these guys all nice and hand out free copies to anyone who asks?
3. When the Imperium founds a new chapter, do they have all necessary equipment for it upon conception, or does it take time for the Imperium to fully outfit the chapter?
4. On the subject of proving loyalty to the empire, would presenting the Imperium and the Adeptus Mechanicus a discovered STC blueprint or two, or even a intact STC machine itself (non-functional of course) be a bargaining chip to ensure survival?
5. Are servitors relatively easy to aqcuire, such as requesting a shipment, or are they generally only distributed to Mars and the various Forge Worlds or Shrines to the Machine God?

Space Marines
1. Tech-Marines are extensively trained. Do they also have the training/knowledge to create servitors? Do they also have the reasonable ability to instruct other marines in the ways of maintaining equipment, even if the practice is not approved of?
2. Can Marines go to Penal Colonies and requisition legions without much difficulty, or do they require clearance from the Imperial Guard Command for release?
3. Space Marine chapters have access to worlds and systems that they can recruit from. How long does it normally take them to discover an initiate?
4. Dreadnoughts seem to be used by most sects within a chapter, however, I have never heard of a techmarine placed within Dreadnought armor. Is there some form of taboo on that, or is it impossible to equip a Dreadnought with a servo-harness?
5. There seem to be two schools of Space Marine Chapters. Those that follow the codex fully, and those that follow it to a point. Is it possible for a space marine chapter to keep the standard 1,000 marine combat force, while also have a modest reserve of trained marines, without drawing too much anger?

The Random Odds and Ends
1. Is it possible for Space Marines to receive replacement material (dreadnought armor, weapons, vehicles, supplies) from Forge Worlds quickly, even in small quantities?
2. Is it possible for a Chapter to "retire" a marine after a point (Well after the glory days of their career) and regulate such a marine to a reserve role such as training the future generations (Much like good ol' crazy but lovable Bjorn?)
3. Is it possible for a Chapter to create an artificial space hulk of fairly excessive size, and use it as a base, while still maintaining the ability to move it quickly across the galaxy?
4. What is the general limit to the numbers of servitors any single person can keep control of?
5. How long would it take a Forge World (say a small to medium sized one) to create complex machinery (Such as Dreadnought armor, vehicles, building materials, etc?)

And if anyone wants to help me come up with a name, I am all for it.
I came up with two names, but they don't real bode well as well as names go...

Iron Warriors
Men of Iron

See what I mean?

Okay I'm no super fluff buff, but I can try to answer what I can:

Imperium command

1. Inquisition deals with it. They're a busy bunch. That being said, I believe other marine chapters can mouth off to various bureaucrats about how X chapter is being annoying and heretical, but either way it falls to the inquisition ( I believe)

2. The Adeptus Mechanicus are the ULTIMATE in technology misers. They HATE giving out STC blueprints if they can afford not to. Keeping the STCs in the hands of Mechanicus forgeworlds is super important.
Various STC templates have spread wide enough to be present across much of the imperium, but lots of the "Juicy stuff" is hidden away. Which can be good, because sometimes chaos can mess with them/they were messed with in the age of strife. Some STCs are corrupted to build giant bombs that just blow up everyone who built it and the
planet they were on, etc. etc.

3. Space Marine equipment is HIGHLY varied. Usually successor chapters borrow stuff from their creators. This is why new chapters often have less TDA than the more established chapters, and often get hand-me-down armor. However sometimes connections with a very well-established chapter, or some high-lord's whim could explain a shipment of Mark VIII armor or something.

4. STCs are CRAZY VALUABLE. Two scouts found one for a combat knife, a measly KNIFE, and they were given a planet each. A WHOLE PLANET. The imperium LOVES STCs. They can allow you to get out of a lot of trouble (though once the machine was handed over, Inquisitors could still just screw with things).

5. Servitors are really easy to acquire, if your chapter is good at lobotomies. From what your chapter seems to deal with (i.e. flirting too close for comfort with chaos) just say that lots of "potential traitors" were cleansed by the techpriests and made into servitors.

Space Marines

1. Techmarines can create servitors (though I could easily imagine apothecaries and other members of the medical/genetics staff lending a hadn to the lobotmies). They probably can instruct other marines, but remember; it's a religion. So Mormon's could try to convert you to mormonism, which would give you the skills to make cool stuff, but if you don't want to convert then they can't force you.

2. Space Marines don't leave their brothers really. Units of their chapter may be requested for various assignments, but they always stay in the chapter order (unless fighting somehow reduces them to like, a handful of marines with no leadership? I don't see really how it'd happen). The imperial guard has no command over space marines, they are separate branches of the Imperial Government. Imperial guard command does not have the authority to task a space marine (or a chapter) to do anything without some form of permission from a higher bureaucratic agency (such as the high lords of terra) or express permission form a chapter master (which would likely not occur).

3. It depends. On some planets they rule fairly strictly, enforcing tithes that train initiaties. Others can recruit from massive hive worlds. Still others have established systems to feed recruits to the Chapter. It depends on what you want. Typically; the larger the population + higher the standard of living, the likelier of getting good marines (decreases level of human mutation and increases the pool of people to recruit from).

4. I suppose a Dreadnought could be a techmarine (it'd be pretty awesome). The main issue is that a techmarine normally isn't in the fray enough to actually become a dreadnought. And because they aren't often in the fray, they probably aren't as great a fighter as a captain or some member of the command squad/honor guard. Also, as is the custom of the Adeptus Mechanicus, they probably aren't that organic anyway, so if they die, they probably won't handle the dreadnought well. Finally, dreadnoughts are pretty clumsy, why wouldn't you put the marine in like, a different special modded tiny dreadnought only designed to repair things? It wouldn't fight well at all, but I suppose it's possible.

5. Yes it is (the black templars have tons). There are lots of non-codexy marines. As long as they maintain some semblance of marine-ness, you'll probably be okay.

Random odds and ends

1. Depends on the proximity of the forge world and the need. Most chapters have their own armouries that make things for them. However, if they are in dire need of forge world equipment, it's quite possible for them to put in some requisition order. Getting done quickly is another issue, unless their is a very dangerous threat (or a very close connection to the forge world).

2. I believe this has happened, to an extent. You can relegate them to training (like Telion or w/e) but they still fight. Marines don't get a retirement package (just look at poor ol' chaplain Cassius)

3. Kind of. There are "Space Borne" chapters that exist fully in fleets or modify various asteroids as bases. Usually, however, these are ancient facilities. However it can happen.

4. I think in game techmarines handle 5? Essentially look at them as robots. Because of the earlier rebellion by the men of iron, humanity kinda avoids AI if it can (excluding the Legio Cybernetica). Instead the lobotomized human-bots do the job as servitors. It's 5 in combat but probably 10 or so in mechanical setting, if not more. It'd depend on what the servitor does.

5. It depends on the capabilities of the forgeworld. For marines, though, they use their own armories. Dreadnought armor is fairly difficult to make and expensive in materiel. I assume their construction period would very depending on the chapter. Rhinos are normally repaired instead of made, as again, it's materiel costs.


name and other issues
You might want to check Lexicanum and Look up the "Iron Hands." They're a tech-obsessed chapter that makes extensive modifications to their bodies, changing them to be more cybernetic. Iron warriors, IIRC, are a chaos faction that does the same thing....only on mass scale and to crazy, chaos proportions.

Men of Iron is the name of the robots that rose up against Mankind and ended the golden age of technology.

If you don't want to be something like the Iron hands, I'd recommend becoming a Successor chapter, maybe Iron Swords or something like that.

As it stands, what backstory I have come up with is a 13th founding chapter based on rare loyalist Iron Warrior (I'm sorry, I just found Perturabo to be far more impressive than Dorn) geneseed. which gives them a certain age and plenty of time for the rest of the story to explain certain peculiarities. They received mentorship training from the Imperial Fists of all things, and that led to some disagreements before they parted ways. Shortly after creation, their homeworld gets hit hard by a massive chaos invasion, and the Imperial Fists come in to save the day with a virus bomb, while the majority of the chapter is fighting a losing battle on-planet to save it, leaving less than a hundred marines to be led by their Master of the Forge on board a battle barge.

This is where I got confused, because I was thinking some minor trickery could lead to the rapid acquisition of Dreadnought armor from Forge Worlds, while some covert operations could take place among all the Imperial Fist and Successor Chapter controlled worlds for "plundering" new recruits, right under their noses. Meanwhile, a chapter suddenly with nothing, starts grabbing everything they can get their hands on, which is why I was curious as to who would have the final say on investigations of renegade status.

Couple that with some agreements for hidding marines with the Iron Hand chapters for training with the Tech Priests of Mars leads to a chapter devoted to finding and preserving technology as a sense of survival, with extremely brutal ground fighting tactics born from their Iron Warrior heritage.

I am glad that it isn't too hard to acquire Servitors, though I was thinking that it would probably take the "stealing" of a penal legion or five to give them enough bodies.

On the names though, it was more of a joke. I know just how poor choices those two are, but they are what I would love to name it! Either one though, would probably wind up having the chapter wiped out for heresy within about 2 minutes after they chose the name.

Alright, first off apologies for stepping on Hashbeth's toes if I cover anything he has already.

Secondly, what allegiance and preferences do your Marines have ie: Chaos/Imperium? Preference for bionics/fire/shock tactics etc. (Just to come up with a name)?

Now I'll try to answer:

Imperium Command:

1. The Inquisition is usually responsible for investigating the event of a whole Chapter going renegade. From what I gather, if a group splits away from their Chapter, the Chapter usually deals with it. But if a whole Chapter goes AWOL the Inquisition is gonna go melon-fething crazy and will certainly be leading an investigation.

2. Like Hasbeth says: The Imperium LOVE the STC's! However, it's probably worth noting that some Chapters of Space Marines do hoard STC's if they can, for example the Dark Angels with their Nephilim and Dark Talon Jets, and the Blood Angels with their Baal Predators and Stormravens. The rest of the Imperium like the IG don't seem to be able to do this, but SM's are kinda on an equal level to the Adeptus Mechanicus.

3. Upon a 'Founding', the Imperium will have all gene-seed, equipment and heraldry already gathered to create a new chapter. The gene-seed is taken from the banks of a pre-existing chapter, whilst the equipment is slowly gathered up prior to the founding.

4. I think it's probably reasonable to say that they could (as stated with the BA and DA), but I gather most would give it up out of a sense of honour. But in extreme circumstances, I can't see why not.

5. From what I gather, any chapter can create Servitors. I can't remember which book I read, possibly Battle for Rynns World or a Salamanders book, but . I think that the Apothecarium or Tech-Marines would be easily able to create servitors provided they have the materials on hand. I can't cite this, but Lexicanum says it as well (Although, again, it doesn't cite from where)

Space Marines:

1. As stated above, they can probably create servitors easily. As for instructing marines in the maintenance of weapons - most definitely yes. The Salamanders are noted for the levels of artificer armour and master-crafted weapons in their armoury. This is due to the Salamanders heritage as smiths and the fact that the Tech-marines have more time to create weapons/armour of great beauty because each Salamander is well-versed in the ways of weapon and armour maintenance (Although the Tech-Marines are still needed if armour or weapons are heavily damaged).

2. I reckon that because Space Marines are outside and above the Imperial Guard's chain of command, they can requisition any IG regiment they want without any formal documentation or permission.

3. It's probably worth noting that it's Aspirants you are refering to. Initiates are not human youths picked by the Chapter, but are the standard Battle-Brothers of the Black Templars. Like Hasbeth has said, Aspirants are provided either in a general tithe, of which the best initiates are taken following scrutiny by the Chaplains and Librarians, or they are subjected to various trials (varying between chapters) and the ones left standing are taken. In the Imperial Fists book 'Son's of Dorn'

4. I think a Techmarine could be a Dreadnought, but I'd say that due to their affiliation with the Adeptus Mechanicus they'd simply re-build their bodies with bionics and carry on.

5. The actual numbers of marines in a chapter varies greatly between chapters. As Hasbeth says, the Black Templars, due to their crusading nature, are though to have way more than the codex-compliant 1000. Although the Imperium can't prove it, it is suspected that they could have a total of up to 6000 marines split into separate crusades - needless to say, the Inquisition keeps a close eye on them. On the other hand, the Salamanders split their companies into 120 each, with a scout company of 60 - giving a force of around 780, depending on losses and tithes of aspirants.

The Random Odds and Ends

1. I'm gonna say no. The Adeptus Mechanicus and the Imperium in General like to do things methodical and slow, so I doubt they'd be knocking equipment out quickly just for one chapter. Having said that, the Salamanders are known to sell masses of raw materials, unearthed by the turbulent nature of Nocturne, to the Adeptus Mechanicus in return for whatever they cannot directly produce on their Forge-Ship (It's a special relic for the Salamanders).

2. I doubt they SM's ever retire. Aside from the fact that they wouldn't ever see 'retirement' because (As far as I can see, but it is a point of argument between fans) they are essentially immortal, the average SM would die before seeing retirement. The closest you would get is being posted to a remote garrison, but even then your likely to see some form of combat as SM's are too valuable to just be shoved to some backwater.

3. Yeah. Lots of chapters have 'Fortress Monasteries' - essentially huge-ass space-station/battleships that serve as their Chapters flagship and home. The Imperial Fist's Phalanx is probably the most famous.

4. None as far as I can see (Assuming your still talking SM's), but practicality of controlling them would dictate that 5 or so would probably be the max for efficient control for a Techmarine.

5. Pah, you name it! The Adeptus Mechanicus take an age to everything. For example, on power armour or Space Marine equipment, each component is thrice-blessed and anointed with holy-oils. This means it can take years for certain pieces of tech to be produced like Tactical Dreadnought Armour (Terminator Armour).

There you go, hope it helps. Ifyou put up a list of things you SM's have a preference for or you want them to be associated with I'm sure I, and others, can come up with some suggestions.

I guess that my guess what a little off then on production times. I was figuring that a forge world might crank out a few suits a year, maybe a Dreadnought every decade.

As for preferences, it's loyal to the IoM, with a heavy emphasis on Dreadnoughts, Thunderfire Cannons softening the target, before large scale charges by marines, and Tech-Marines everywhere.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Space Marines:

2. I reckon that because Space Marines are outside and above the Imperial Guard's chain of command, they can requisition any IG regiment they want without any formal documentation or permission.

That would actually be quite the opposite - a Marine Chapter Master had better have all documents and permissions in order if he wants units from the IG or pretty much anyone else. The marines are outside the chain of command and both the marine giving orders and the IG unit obeying him would be in trouble if it wasn't all legit. Marines aren't Inquisitors who can just walk in and demand things (and even those usually request politely at first).

Combat zones might be a bit different though, with IG, Navy, Marines and maybe others too showing up. In such cases the Imperial leaders will meet and try to determine who should be in overall command based on experience, familiarity with own forces and the enemy, the area and so on. A respected Chapter Master may well be asked to assume the post, and he might also prefer to turn it down in favor of leading his marines in support of the IG where needed instead. Some marines won't even deign to show up to the meeting, just going ahead with their own battle plan and leaving the cleaning-up work to whoever it may concern. In any case documents are made, detailing the meeting and the reasons someone was asked to take command - the Imperium is very big on keeping the books in order.

Hmmm, how about the 'Ironbreakers' then?

To be honest, though I admire your individuality and creativity, and there certainly were loyalists from the Iron Warriors, as shown in the short story 'The Iron Within', where

So, whilst you could in theory have a loyalist Iron Warrior chapter, and the Imperium still holds the Iron Warriors gene-seed, I doubt the IoM would ever release the seed for a founding.

Or Iron-Reavers?


Possibly Steel Skulls?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Spetulhu - To be honest, it's just the image I got. With Space Marines often taking the lead in a combat zone, I gathered that they could requisition forces at will. As you say, this may just be an ad hoc event as it's in a combat situation. Nevermind, thanks for correcting me

1. The short answer is the Inquisition. This tends to be pretty hard though, since Space Marines find it easy to stonewall such investigations. If another chapter takes the renegade actions personally, they might get involved at the behest of the Inquisition.
2. Short answer? Yes, it's possible. There are STCs out there to be discovered. When they were first created, STCs weren't meant to be hoarded, but distributed freely, which means they aren't necessarily under lock and key, just lost.
3. Unclear. Probably both. With the massive scope of the 40k universe, some chapters were probably fully outfitted, and some were probably founded without the proper equipment to go around. Most probably had a mix of the two, with some equipment readily available, and some still 'on order.'
4. Hells yes! Especially in buttering up to the AdMech and getting yourself sweeter and more numerous weapons and equipment.
5. Servitors are pretty easy to acquire. They talk about how there are many chapters staffed (at the serf level) entirely by servitors. In many of the books they talk about servitors doing manual labor, and they always seem underfoot, even in civilian settings. With as numerous as they are, I don't think they're that valuable or hard to make.

1. Both of your conclusions seem reasonable to me, although the first is a bit callous, and the second probably a little bit frowned upon by both marines and the admech alike.
2. It would probably be a bit of a hassle. (The marines and the guard don't share the same chain of command.) Guessing from your other questions, they could probably request units of them at a time, but if some higher up found out they were taking the guys and turning them into servitors, someone might get a little offended. Not that they guardsmen were being lobotomized, but that the space marines had taken it upon themselves to alter the sentence that had been passed on them.
3. Depends on the chapter. The more populous worlds offer up lots of recruits on a regular basis, who then go through rigorous tests to see if they have what it takes. Some of the more brutal chapters just go to a hive world, bag an entire gang from the underhive, put two in the back of the coconut of all the adults, and then abduct the juves for testing and implantation. The ones who die, toss out into space, and never think about again!
4. I think you could definitely put a techmarine in a dread, although he would find it hard to continue in his role as a techmarine, since the dread lacks the fine motor control. I'm guessing you can't give a dread a servo-harness. This makes me wonder, though, since we never see it in the fluff, if the techmarines are knowledgeable enough to know exactly what kind of a hell the dreads live in, and always make sure everyone knows to NOT inter them?
5. Sure. Hell, the Black Templars and Space Wolves both have way, way more than that. There is a chapter in the game codex that is mentioned as having eleven companies, which means they would have 1100 marines at full strength. Having an extra reserve company probably wouldn't be too wonky.

1. Sure, especially if they have a close relationship with the admech, share a planet/system with the forge world, or help to guard admech shipments/production.
2. Yes and no. It's possible to put a marine on training duty, which would of course be lighter than active combat duty, but they would still see the battlefield quite a bit. A Space Marine would find the idea of retirement abhorrent. As sci-fi versions of chivalric warrior-elite, their personal honor demands that they be allowed to die in glorious service to the Emperor. The fact that they have waited so long to do so only adds to the reasons they should be allowed to die in combat.
3. Yes-ish. Many chapters use mobile spaceships or fleets of them. A chapter using a repurposed space hulk seems reasonable to me. A chapter with a homeworld AND a space hulk seems a bit much. (At that point, it makes more sense for them to be split into two chapters, one fleet based and one based back at home.)
4. A couple of hundred? I think it also makes sense that you could program servitors to supervise other servitors. You can train elephants to process lumber, and train other elephants to beat the laborers with a chain if they don't work fast enough. Same would hold true with servitors, I would think.
5. I haven't the foggiest. I think that as long as you gave a convincing reason why it is the way you say it is, you could get away with any reasonable answer.

Hope that helps.

Thank you guys for your help so far. Things are really start to come into perspective for me. Anyone want to discuss one particular topic out of here in general with me? I'm talking about the Tech-Marine/Dreadnought combinations.

As far as I understand things, Tech-Priests have specific implants given to them, that allow them to speak in the far more precise and faster language of Lingua-technis (binary). Now, since the Tech-Priests train the Tech-Marines, isn't it possible that the Tech-Marines could have access to these implants? There is also the fact that Dreadnoughts use Mind Impulse Units. Servo-harnesses operate off of the same principle, only they tap directly into the nervous system. Is the question now merely if the Adeptus Mechanicus has the capabilities to modify a servo-harness to accept the input from a MIU? Now consider the different sizes that the Mechadendrites can come in. I am unsure to what extent a Dreadnought has in the way of sensors, but if they do have access to them, would it not be possible for a servo-harness to get within decent proximity of any fine detail task, then use the binary implants to lay out exact commands (much like modern day programming), using the Tech-Marine as a form of computer to issue the commands and leaving the rest to the machine?

Techmarines can indeed speak binary.

I don't think anything you've come up with is unreasonable from a realism perspective, but it's a bit of a stretch for most people from a story perspective, I think. If you really don't care what other people think, then go with it. If you want a story for your group that other people will appreciate, I would be wary of getting too crazy with it. A chapter closely allied with the admech is fine (and supported by fluff) but techmarine dreadnoughts who can still use their servo harnesses through MIU linkup is starting to get a little far afield.

That being said, it's your chapter, and what makes you happy is what's most important.

I'll second Jimsolo. I think, IMHO, your probably best off keeping your generic Dreadnoughts if you want others to accept your Chapter and it's fluff. I don't actually play 40K, but I'm going to guess that if you started to add lots of combat mechadendrites to your dreadnought A) It's going to be far too OP in close quarters and B) I doubt many people will even accept your fielding of said Dreadnought. Having said that, i'll echo Jimsolo again and say: It's your Chapter - do what you feel is right.

I don't ever plan to field them in-game. I just want to create that combination for a centerpiece!

What I would do - just thinking aloud here. I would forget all about using a DreadNOUGHT and go with DreadKNIGHT. That way, A) It'll look great as a centrepiece and B) As the Dreadknight is piloted by a healthy Astartes, you could modify it to look like a huge power lifter of some sort. I don't really know what you would use it for - some sort of munitions lifter on the chapters Battle-Barge?

What did you think of the names I suggested?

I really like the Iron Reaver name. It's quite catchy, considering their attitudes. As for a dreadknight...I think I will leave that to the Grey Knights. It's hard enough discussing this. To be honest, fluff-wise, I was considering this particular combination as a homegrown variant, used only by those few marines of the chapter that are are so old and crippled, but have not died in battle, or through the long service in the chapter as a Tech-Marine (Though a Tech-Marine that is so severely crippled in battle might take this path). They would willingly submit to being interred within the dreadnoughts and accept their combat removed rolls as caretakers of the space hulk the chapter has created along with directing their production facility, taking direct control over the vast amount of servitors included. So every once and a while, you might see one of them manhandling a gigantic bulkhead into place with a large group of servitors, welding it into place before moving off on another duty.

Hmmm, possibly, but again, I think the sheer resources that go into creating a dread (and they are constantly repaired because of their value), would mean that I doubt they would be left as mere powerlifters within the chapters flagship. Nevertheless, if that's your choice, then pursue that path as far as you want. Good luck to you and if you need more help then i'm happy to oblige.