Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, im a big player of fantasy but have recently discovered warmachine.

I was wanting some help from the Dakka Dakka forum.

I love the idea of as many jacks as possible supported by infantry.

What would be the best army to go with.

Opinions why would also help me decide.

Thanks

Menoth can run the most Warjacks of any of the current factions, Cyriss might change that however.

But even then, you're not going to be able to effectively run more then 3-4 warjacks. And that's in large 50 point games.


This is because Warjacks require Focus to be effective, and your Warcaster only has a limited supply.

Menoth gets around this partially by having a lot of non-focus dependent warjack buffing mechanisms. The main ones are Choir and Vassals.


A decent 35 point Menoth list for a beginner would be something like the following

pKreoss
-Reckoner
-Vanquisher
-Redeemer

minimum Choir
max Exemplar Errants with UA
Knights Exemplar Seneshal
Vassal of Menoth
Wracks


You have the Choir to give out Jack buffs. Vassal for Ancillery Attack and Enliven(both amazing abilities) and you have Wracks for extra Focus.

Then for melee units you have the Exemplar Errants which are one of the most amazing infantry units in the game(if you take the UA) and an Exemplar Seneshal for a little extra kick.

I agree with Grey Templar. Protecterate or convergence are the way to go. You could also go with a hordes faction, warbeasts are much easier to run than jacks.

I'd like to suggest Cygnar, we can easily field 4-6 jacks and be effective as we have a lot of units that not only have jack marshal, but have great synergy with the units.

A Stormclad marshaled to Stormblads gives it a point of focus(in addition to jack marshal bonus) and +2" range on it's Generator Blast
Marshal a Defender to some ATGM+UA and add their Rune shots to his Cannon
Arlan Strangeways can marshal a jack, repair it, keep it from being disrupted, make it evasive and give it the equivalent of 2 focus a turn
Jr. Warcaster creates a second battle group, plus he gives you arcane shield to throw on a unit

That's 4 good jacks combinations before you even touch your caster.

Yeah, but only a few jacks are good for being Marshalled. In that such jacks usually only ever need 1 Focus, and even then you don't have the option of loading it up and sending it off the kill something.

Eh, the jacks I marshal are the Defender, Hunter, Stormclad, and maybe a charger or a cyclone depending on my caster. All of these can easily run off of 1 or 2 focus.

Most combinations I run will give you the equivalent of 2 focus; Strangways, JR, or a stormclad with stormblades.

The Stormclad is a killing machine even with only 2 focus. highest non-stormwall P+S , reach, a 10" threat range. When I do run him I run in a group that consists of Stormblades +UA w/ 2x gunners and strangeways. This tends to draw fire a bit as most opponents recognize the massive beatstick that is heading their way.

 .superted. wrote:

I love the idea of as many jacks as possible supported by infantry.

It depends what you consider "supported by infantry'

most armies that run "lots of jacks' , don't run lots of jacks and ram them down the opponents throat, because of how focus works, it just doesn't happen that way, if you need to give out too much focus to too many targets at the same time, you aren't going to accomplish much.

To combat that, armies that run lots of jacks, run mostly focus efficient jacks, to use menoth as an example:
your average caster has 6 or 7 focus, harby has 10
a vanquisher has a good shot at long range, and can hold its own in mellee, but doesn't really get around too well, so you take 2 of them, a choir to buff them, and usually 2 vassels to give them an extra shot, or a defensive buff to someone else if necessary.
so now you have 2 or 4 shots per turn at long range, that do great damage, with either zero or 1 focus to each jack invested, really good deal, if they want to get into close combat with another jack, they need 2-3 focus each

your front line is a reckoner or two, who are much faster, have longer range melee weapons, but are focus hoggy, if one wants to get into melee, you want to load him up with 3 in most cases, sometimes a buff or upkeep spell too. If the reckoners go down, you have the vanquishers coming up behind them, but they can't all just engage at once, you don't have the 15+ focus you need to do that.

see the problem? you're already at the redline and spent all your focus, but you haven't even cast any spells yet! this is where the santifier, reclaimer, wracks, heirophant, ect. support models come in, that can help you with your focus addiction.

Thats menoth, cygnar and some other factions can marshal jacks, meaning you have a squad of dudes, and the leader can give the jack 1 pseudo focus, again relieving your caster from the task.

Thats one side of the coin where your infantry are active support units, then there's khador.
They dont really have any jack support directly, and their infantry is great, the infantry for them are tarpits and heavy lifters, with the big, slow, heavily armored and hard hitting jacks dealing with the tougher targets. The lack of direct support means you can't use as many, as effectively at once as other factions, but they sure pound faces when given the opportunity.

Thanks for the tips.

Im thinking khador at the moment.

Going to work on afew lists. Any more tips would be welcome.

 .superted. wrote:
Thanks for the tips.

Im thinking khador at the moment.

Going to work on afew lists. Any more tips would be welcome.

This is the worst possible choice if you like 'Jacks. You will be unhappy and hate the game. Do not play Khador if you like 'Jacks. You will not be able to make it work in a way you find satifisfactory.

If you want big stompy pieces you have the following choices, with some caveats:

Protectorate of Menoth. Caveat: None. Menite 'Jacks are super efficient, versatile and deadly. The faction has the Focus support to run them as the main thrust of any list, under the majority of casters.
Convergence of Cyriss. Caveat: "Probably" they're new, not fully released and haven't seen much play time yet. It remains to be seen if their 'Jack prowess is as good as promised.
Cygnar. Caveat: You have to be careful about. Points are thin and Cygnar 'Jack support is expensive and a little bit narrow in terms of the 'Jacks it can run. You can make them the main thrust your list but it'll take some work and often be bit suboptimal.

Khador is NOT an option for a 'Jack centric player.

Chongara wrote:

This is the worst possible choice if you like 'Jacks. You will be unhappy and hate the game. Do not play Khador if you like 'Jacks. You will not be able to make it work in a way you find satifisfactory.

I beg to differ, really, he wasn't really clear with his request.

- If he wants lots of jacks with lots of buff support, he wants menoth
- if he wants lots of jacks being controlled by unit leaders, and shooting, he wants cygnar
- if he wants lots and lots of jacks he wants cyriss, but they are unforgiving activation order wise

but his original post said he wanted to run lots of jacks, supported by lots of infantry, which is pretty much any army, ever, if he wants a few, really stompy jacks and lots of infantry to jam things up and get murdered, khador is perfectly doable, besides that kharchev can run jack spam with some effect, even though he's a one trick pony.

Sorry if I wasnt clear. As mentioned im new into warmachine.

Id like to play as many jacks as possible. I love the idea of these things stomping around etc. The comment about infantry support was meant as, any spare points spent on them to bulk it out abit.

Sorry if I was unclear

 .superted. wrote:
Sorry if I wasnt clear. As mentioned im new into warmachine.

Id like to play as many jacks as possible. I love the idea of these things stomping around etc. The comment about infantry support was meant as, any spare points spent on them to bulk it out abit.

Sorry if I was unclear

In that case you want to go with menoth, cyriss, cygnar, in that order

If you like hordes, legion and skorne can run really beast heavy, with legion pretty much head and sholders over everyone else where /most/ of their lists contain minimal infantry.

 .superted. wrote:
Sorry if I wasnt clear. As mentioned im new into warmachine.

Id like to play as many jacks as possible. I love the idea of these things stomping around etc. The comment about infantry support was meant as, any spare points spent on them to bulk it out abit.

Sorry if I was unclear

Yeah. Playing Khador will leave an awful taste in your mouth.

Protectorate of Menoth is your best bet. In particular it sounds like you want to play Reznik or eFeora ("Feora, Protectorate of the Flame").

 Grundz wrote:

 .superted. wrote:
Sorry if I wasnt clear. As mentioned im new into warmachine.

Id like to play as many jacks as possible. I love the idea of these things stomping around etc. The comment about infantry support was meant as, any spare points spent on them to bulk it out abit.

Sorry if I was unclear

In that case you want to go with menoth, cyriss, cygnar, in that order

If you like hordes, legion and skorne can run really beast heavy, with legion pretty much head and sholders over everyone else where /most/ of their lists contain minimal infantry.

I would probably switch Cyriss and Menoth in that list, going Cyriss, Menoth, Cygnar, Cryx, Khador. I've gotten several games with Cyriss in at this point, and they can do very, very well at 50 points with 51 points spent on warjacks. The only problem with them, of course, is that you're gonna' have to wait a shade under a month for the models to start coming out, but if that isn't a problem...

BoardroomHero wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

 .superted. wrote:
Sorry if I wasnt clear. As mentioned im new into warmachine.

Id like to play as many jacks as possible. I love the idea of these things stomping around etc. The comment about infantry support was meant as, any spare points spent on them to bulk it out abit.

Sorry if I was unclear

In that case you want to go with menoth, cyriss, cygnar, in that order

If you like hordes, legion and skorne can run really beast heavy, with legion pretty much head and sholders over everyone else where /most/ of their lists contain minimal infantry.

I would probably switch Cyriss and Menoth in that list, going Cyriss, Menoth, Cygnar, Cryx, Khador. I've gotten several games with Cyriss in at this point, and they can do very, very well at 50 points with 51 points spent on warjacks. The only problem with them, of course, is that you're gonna' have to wait a shade under a month for the models to start coming out, but if that isn't a problem...

in a month he'll have all of what, 6 models? and the month after that, a colossal and the angels? If we had a full release schedule i'd be more prudent to push for cyriss, but I cant recommend an army who won't have a ton of key pieces in play for months and months to a new player. (dont get me wrong, i'm going all-in on cyrsis, but more for the infantry)

 Grundz wrote:


in a month he'll have all of what, 6 models? and the month after that, a colossal and the angels? If we had a full release schedule i'd be more prudent to push for cyriss, but I cant recommend an army who won't have a ton of key pieces in play for months and months to a new player. (dont get me wrong, i'm going all-in on cyrsis, but more for the infantry)

Honestly, my Syntherion force includes only the models that will be out in the near future, and it has been pulling way more weight than I expected it to be. It's scary how efficient their warjacks are. You're right, it's going to take a while for it to be completely up-to-par, but I'd hate to suggest a faction to a new player, when something they might like more is /just/ around the corner.

That being said, the disadvantages of playing Cyriss are significant (the big one being that they're probably not going to be getting any more models for /quite/ some time.)