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More specifically, is there any difference between the heavy bolters carried by the marines and those mounted on vehicles and used by IG?
The difference in size is as great as that between the bolter and heavy bolter yet heavy bolters are all treated the same. Should the ones on vehicles be the same size as those carried, or should the vehicle ones "in real life" be considered bigger nastier versions of the squad carried ones?

Well think of it this way.
The M4 Sherman has a 30cal co axle gun.
U.S. rangers has a portable 30cal. HMG.

there different sizes but shoot the same Caliber.

same with the heavy bolter.

You mean in terms of fluff? Details such as these will very likely differ considerably depending on which source you are looking at - something that largely makes the debate meaningless as it hinges so much on whatever material we've read and how we interpret it as individual gamers/readers.

Personally, I don't see why vehicle-mounted heavy bolters should be bigger/nastier, as the squad-carried ones are already fairly big and nasty and not really meant to be used by individual troopers. That Marines/SoB and some very bulky normal people manage to do so is an exception from the rule.

Although I generally loathe to point towards real life examples, we have several weapons that are used on vehicles as well as in squads with an identical model, so without indications that it must be different I would apply the same to the HB as well.

I would imagine it would be similar in size to the heavy 40mm grenade launchers of today, only longer instead of wide.


heck have a large boxy front end over the barrel and your really close.

Aside from a few cosmetic differences, not much.

The marine heavy bolter may actually be smaller because all it has is a grip while the IG heavy bolter has a tripod and blast shield.


As far as the guts go, its the same gun.

The only difference between a vehicle mounted HB and a man-portable version would be ammo feeds.

 kinratha wrote:
Well think of it this way.
The M4 Sherman has a 30cal co axle gun.
U.S. rangers has a portable 30cal. HMG.

there different sizes but shoot the same Caliber.

same with the heavy bolter.

How much different in size are they?

If you look at the heavy bolter on the back of a razorback and put a heavy bolter that a devastator would use next to it, they're not even close in size. The tripod mounted IG one is the same size.
I've since looked again at the ones on lighter vehicles like speeders and bikes and they're the smaller type. It's the ones on the tanks that are huge which brings me back to wondering why such a size difference when they're the same weapon in game. In the fluff I would expect them to be larger calibre, high rate of fire or something to justify the size difference or maybe they should be the same size as the ones on the speeders, bikes etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Engine of War wrote:
I would imagine it would be similar in size to the heavy 40mm grenade launchers of today, only longer instead of wide.


heck have a large boxy front end over the barrel and your really close.

I agree, longer and with a heavier casing.

The reason for the difference has nothing to do with fluff, it's purely an aesthetic choice for the models. 40k vehicles tend to have ludicrously oversized guns to make them look cooler. For example, the Leman Russ battle cannon has a caliber that nothing shy of a battleship could possibly mount. Even assuming that materials science has advanced enough to prevent it from tearing the turret off with recoil, there's nowhere in the tank to store shells the size of a human torso, nor could the crew possibly hand-load it as the fluff states.

40k minis are designed to be iconic, not realistic. Discrepancies like the weapon difference between infantry and vehicle versions (also, check out the difference between a Rhino storm bolter and a Grey Knight one) are for visual aesthetics and there's no reason to try to justify them in-universe.

The stormbolter is a little different. The vehicle one is the same size as two bolters stuck together which is how the thing came into existence in the first place.
The hand held one is more like two boltpistols stuck together.

Still not the huge size difference between the heavy bolters or lascannon for that matter.

The huge vehicular heavy bolters are due to armor over the weapons, included in the AV of the tank.

The vehicle mounted stormbolter may also have additional targeting equipment and sensors built into the weapon. You can either make it manually fired or have it be remote operated from inside the vehicle.

The hand-carried stormbolter still maintains the withering rate of fire of the vehicle-mounted version, rather than being semi-automatic like a bolt-pistol. Functionally, it's the same weapon. One could almost consider a stormbolter to be the "sub-machinegun" model of bolt weapons, bridging the gap between the bolt-pistol and the "assault rifle" of the boltgun.

Bolters are bolters. Boltpistols, boltguns and stormbolters all fire the exact same round. The Heavy Bolter fires a larger caliber bolt (1.0 caliber, as opposed to the .75 caliber of other bolt weapons, iirc) than others, but is otherwise identical in its functions to other "heavy bolters", whether it's man-portable or affixed to a tank.

I always viewed stormbolters as being LMGs, not SMGs.

Bolters are SMGs, not assault rifles.

The Stormbolter is a really bulky, two-barreled pistol, fully-automatic with a pair of honking huge drums feeding it:

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/065/d/4/Storm_bolter_3D_max_render_by_DarkLostSoul86.jpg

The boltgun, though is commonly shown being wielded one-handed by SM, has the length and forward shroud to be used two-handed, like an M16 (which can also, incidentally, be fired single-handed, while being an assault rifle).

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120929012126/warhammer40k/images/8/83/BolterAstartes_MK_Vb.jpg

(mind you, this is a honking huge weapon, comparatively).

... of course, I'm using the terms "SMG" and "AR" only as broad descriptors of each weapon's place in the hierarchy and battlefield role. The boltgun, being the mainstay weapon of the Space Marines, seems to fill the role of an assault rifle, while the Stormbolter is (ideally) used by small, elite teams for close-in work. Boltpistols.. well, goes without saying.

The Heavy Bolter, of course, takes the place of what would normally be a crew-served SAW.

What does having a forward grip have to do with it being an Assault Rifle vs an SMG?

 Psienesis wrote:

... of course, I'm using the terms "SMG" and "AR" only as broad descriptors of each weapon's place in the hierarchy and battlefield role. The boltgun, being the mainstay weapon of the Space Marines, seems to fill the role of an assault rifle, while the Stormbolter is (ideally) used by small, elite teams for close-in work. Boltpistols.. well, goes without saying..

But by that definition, the Bolter is an SMG. Marines normally operate as "small elite teams for close-in work"

The Stormbolter has a higher rate of fire and a similar range. Its reserved for the Elite of the Elite, and hence why every marine doesn't get one.

The Boltgun is technically a fully-automatic handheld missile launcher, but assuming we classify it with standard terms it's definitely an SMG.

 Grey Templar wrote:
But by that definition, the Bolter is an SMG. Marines normally operate as "small elite teams for close-in work"

The Stormbolter has a higher rate of fire and a similar range. Its reserved for the Elite of the Elite, and hence why every marine doesn't get one.

... which is, again, why I'm considering the boltgun to be an assault rifle and the stormbolter an SMG. I'm not comparing the SM to the IG, or any other Imperial military organization, simply to themselves. The vast bulk of Space Marines are equipped, as standard, with a boltgun. They use this weapon at all manner of ranges, as fits the need of the story being written about them, because apparently the standard-pattern boltgun has a range of "plot meters". Thus, it is the "assault rifle" of bolt weapons.

... and if you want to get really technical, it's a two-stage gyrojet rifle with an armor-piercing explosive munition (as standard).