Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been building 40k models for awhile and decided I'd try making a necron army that was actually competitive. Here is my first 2000 point list any constructive criticism would greatly help:

Nemesor Zahndrekh 185 (have not decided which unit to put him in)

2 Annihilation Barges Tesla Cannon 180

5 Deathmarks w/ Despair-tek w/ abyssal staff and veil of darkness w/ night scythe Despair-tek w/ abyssal staff and nightmare shroud 300 (i do not fully understand what wounds against leadership means)

2 15 Necron Warriors w/ Ghost Ark (5 in ark) w/ Destro-tek (in ark) 560

1 Doom Scythe 175

2 10 Immortals gauss w/ Lord warscythe weave orb 560

1960 total points

Thanks for any help,

Endreon

Wounds against leadership means that you use your target's leadership as It's toughness when rolling to wound.

Though with the Mark from Deathmarks, it wounds on a 2+

Thank you, that clarifies a lot. Does anyone have suggestions on the actual list?


Thanks for any help.

I don't quite understand what you mean by 2 15 Warrior (5 in Ghost Arks). Do you mean 2 units of 10 and 2 units of 5 in the Arks?

As for the list:

First of all, you can not have 2 Crypteks in the Deathmark unit as you can only have 1 for each Royal Court. Also, why a Veil for a unit in the Night Scythe?

Outside of that, the list seems rather solid. The Barges and Scythes give you AA, Anti-Infantry and Anti-Light Vehicles. Warriors, Immortals and Arks function as both Anti-Infantry and Antitank (even better with Zhandrekh). Any TEQ is easy to shoot down with either mass fire or the Doom Scythe. However, a single Doom Scythe is really rather easy for any AA to shoot down, so it might not always be cost effective.

For suggestions, how about a blob of 20 Warriors instead of 2 units of 10 outside the Arks? They will benefit more from Zhandrekhs Orb and can be VERY hard to take down with the support of 2 Arks. A Solar Pulse on one of the Harbingers of Destruction Crypteks can increase the survivability of the Arks a lot.

I would suggest that you drop the Veil as the Deathmark unit already is transported wherever needded by the scythe. I don't really see the point of a Nightmare Shroud in the unit either.

If you drop 1 of the Crypteks in the Deathmark unitn (as you can only have 1 anyway) as well as the Veil and NS, that gives you... 70pts? Add a Solar Pulse for 20pts.

That leaves you 90 points for some upgrades, Warriors, Scarabs or anything. I would suggest an additional Lord to join with Zhandrekh in the Warrior blob. Give him a Warscythe and MsS for 60pts. Also give the Lords with the Immortals Mindschackle Scarabs. That gives you a small CC threat in both the eventual Blob and the Immortal units.

Hope I helped!

Thank you so much that really helps, so the new list is:

20 Warriors w/ Zahndrekh w/ 2 Ghost Arks w/ 2 Destro-teks 1 w/ Solar Pulse w/ Lord Warscythe Weave MSS Orb 860 (a lot of points in one unit, can you have two ghost arks in one unit?)

2 Annihilation Barges Tesla Cannon 180

5 Deathmarks w/ Despair-tek w/ Abyssal Staff w/ Night Scythe 225

1 Doom Scythe 175

2 10 Immortals Gauss w/ Lord Warscythe Weave MSS Orb 550

1990 Total Points (if my math is correct)

Thank you again but isn't 860 points in so few units quite a fire magnet?

On another note would adding two units of 6 Canoptek Wraiths be beneficial in a 2500 point game (4 with whips in each unit)?

No, you can't have two Ghost Arks for a unit. A unit can only take a single dedicated transport. What you are best doing is getting a cheap 5 man Warrior unit and using them for objective holding in your own turf and get them the dedicated Ghost Ark - both Ghost Arks follow behind the super Warrior unit. I would also add in Tremor-Tek instead of Lancetek, reason is a Tremor-Tek would help against would be assaulting units.

I do not see the point in the Lord with the Immortals.

You need the Annhilation Barges back, those things are cheap as chips and extremely effective.

If you are going on foot consider Wraiths and maybe Canoptek Spyders. Some Scarabs would help too. This would create a fast moving threat to distract the opponent while the Spyders act as counter assault units.

I'd stay away from the Doom Scythe if you can, AV11 flyers will die very quickly all alone, and when its 175 of your points...

from what I understand 3 AB is your best HS choice, they kill (most) flyers (Helldrakes are horrible things) they hit lots, and you can nearly have 2 for the price of a Doom Scythe, without worrying if it's going to be on the board before turn 4, and without worrying that when it does turn up, someones interceptor is going to blow it sky high before you can get a shot off

on the issue of the big blob o' warrior, other than the fact you can't have 2 ghost arks, the best way to field warriors is in large doses with a Rez orb and a GA in support, loose the destructeks too, Solar pulse is not as fantastic as it once was.

3 units of troops at 2000 isn't a huge number, and when most games aarre objective based, you'll need more to make sure you don't become impotent

finally Wraiths...wraiths are a Necrons best friend, they move through cover, they have an invul save and they can chew up most things in close combat with the help of a whip coil or two, I've just done a 2000 point list thats lots of troops AB and Wraiths, from what I've seen and tried it should work nicely, have a look if you fancy

Well, I might have been unclear, but I meant that you could have a 20 man blob supported by 2 Arks embarked by 5 (or 10) Warriors. That's a lot of points, but with it you have 2 embarked Scoring units, and a Scoring Blob that is REALLY hard to take down.

Res-Orb Lords in the Immortal units increases survivability.

All Gauss Fire is great at taking down most things. Vehicles, infantry and even some TEQ go down to that many shots. Barges for Anti-Air, Infantry and Light Vehicles. I would agree a single flyer is vulnerable, so changing the Doom Scythe for a Barge might be a good idea.

20 warrior blob with a Res Orb and to Repair Barges holding two small 5 man warrior squads...it's going to live 99% of the time, but its another 180 points for what I'd reckon is only an extra 1% of the time, wouldn't it be better to have two units of warrior blob with a ghost ark supporting each, say maybe 15-20 warrior groups, supported by a 5 warrior ark combo each, the blob kills, the 5 warriors hold the objective, the GA follows the blob without its crew...

thats (if using 15 warriors in blobs with a WS RO lord) 900 points, but its a good 900 points that will score. and at rapid fire range has 100 shots (inc a broadside from the GA) on anything you need killing, half of those on a Land Raider...thats 50 shots = 25 hits...then to glance = 4.6 times on average...means smoking wreck, ok thats 450 points taking out 250 points, but the 450 can then leave a small unit to hold an objective, while the rest move on, and you can do that 2 times a turn with a 15blob-5support+GA system

its 205 points more than the 20 man blob with 2 GA support, so you'd have to see what else you wanted to field, but I think 15 warrior blobs have enough staying power with a Lord attached and a GA behind (at least the maths seems to say so?)

to the OP what are you hoping this list will do, whats your local meta like, what armies are you likely to face do you think?

whatever you do, I hope you have some fun


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's my suggested 2000 point list (its the re-write at the bottom)

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/538702.page

I don't know if it'll be any help, but I'm hoping it might

Thank you all for the help, it's really useful.

@Binks I like the idea of two warrior blobs rather than one big one but if I would do this where would I stick Zahndrekh and I think I'm 180 points over with MSS and weave? Is MSS and weave worthwhile on the lords in those blobs?

I think changing the scythe for a barge could be a good idea and would save a load of points.

Second, what are the benefits of Destruc-teks (if any for this setup and what should they be replaced with)?

@mercer Wouldn't the Lord with orb give the unit some survivability and assault protection for rapid fire?

I just recently started learning the rules for actual 40K, previously I just had fun building and painting the models. I live in Israel so I'm looking for somewhere to play (hard to find).

Thanks

 Endreon wrote:
Thank you all for the help, it's really useful.

@Binks I like the idea of two warrior blobs rather than one big one but if I would do this where would I stick Zahndrekh and I think I'm 180 points over with MSS and weave? Is MSS and weave worthwhile on the lords in those blobs?

I think changing the scythe for a barge could be a good idea and would save a load of points.

Second, what are the benefits of Destruc-teks (if any for this setup and what should they be replaced with)?

You could use Zahndrekh instead of one of the lords, only one res orb is needed per blob, so he would do the job, regarding mss and sw, sw on lords is personal preference, some people like a 2+ save but on a single wound char it's a lot of points, I take it if the points are available, with mss it's great if you think you'll be in assault nothing is more fulfilling than watching a daemon prince kill himself for you

Destructeks are great for there high strength low ap long range shots, something the rest of the army misses, if I can I like having one in each ghost ark making a mobile gun platform for AT shots at range, but remember they must shoot at the same thing the unit in the GA do so its situational if you las cannon equivalent is being wasted on shooting grots or guardsmen

Solar pulse is situational too as a number of army's now can see through night fighting so they can still hit you, but you can't hit them. For 20 points its mss or sw for a lord, or another immortal/warrior for your troops, but again it's personal preference

Enjoy playing, hope you find Necrons a rewarding army to play

Thanks for all the help everyone it really helped me decide.

This will be my final list (I hope there isn't some unforeseen problem with it):

Nemesor Zahndrekh 185

3 Annihilation Barges 270

5 Deathmarks w/ Despair-tek w/ Abyssal Staff w/ Night Scythe 225

2 Units of 15 Necron Warriors w/ Lord Warscythe Orb MSS (one has Zahndrekh) w/ GA (5 Warriors in GA) 785

2 Units of 10 Immortals Gauss w/ Lord Warscythe Weave MSS Orb

Thanks again

 Endreon wrote:


@mercer Wouldn't the Lord with orb give the unit some survivability and assault protection for rapid fire?

I just recently started learning the rules for actual 40K, previously I just had fun building and painting the models. I live in Israel so I'm looking for somewhere to play (hard to find).

Thanks

Those buffs and feature is not a survival buff. The Tremortek reduces the enemy unit's charge range, so they declare charge, you overwatch and they roll minus tremorstave. They could be taking an assault charge for nothing so to speak. You still have the res orb and overwatch abiltiy/buff anyway.

mercer,

Do you think it would be worth dropping MSS and weave on the Lords in the Immortals units for Tremor-teks?

Second, would using my last ten points on a Seismic Crucible be worth it?

Thanks

The Lords are very expensive for what they are. I would switch for the Tremorteks and see how they work out.

I cannot remember what the crucible does, can you remind me?

At the start of the enemy Assault Phase roll a D3 and nominate an enemy unit. If the unit attempts to assault the Cryptek or his unit reduce their charge move by the result of the D3.

However to field two of such Crypteks I would need a second HQ. I could possibly drop the Lord with the other warriors and Lord with Immortals and put in an Overlord instead.

Thanks for the help.

Endrion from reading your posts, it seems as though your saying you will have a unit of 15 warriors with a ghost ark, and that 5 of the warriors will be in the ark. This is not possible. The whole unit has to embark, or none of them can.

If what you meant is that you have 15 warriors in a unit as well as 5 more warriors in a ghost ark from a different unit, then ignore everything I said. That is fine.

hey,

just a quick comment about tremor staves being used to defend in the assault

I think (quite happy to be proven wrong) that blast weapons can't snap fire, which means they can't fire in overwatch,

if you do want to use a cryptek for that function use a haywiretek with lightening field, D6 strength 8 AP 5 hits stops hordes from assaulting you, and can even make a TEQ think twice or what about a despairtek as his template weapon will hit using the "wall of flame/death" rule in overwatch D3 times, personally I'd keep the Lords, MSS is really fun when used to make a daemon prince kill himself, and as its a 3xD6 leadership test your opponent fails it quite often, so also means if your lord is challenged, it'll save his shiny behind more often than a 2+ save as successful MSS rolls mean the opponent can't then hit you in a challenge.

regarding the weave...that's a different ball game weave is good for some people, bad for others, you can throw a load of wounds on your lord's 2+ but a single roll of 1 will mean he's a goner, until he pops back up on a 4+/5+ dependent on his Res Orb status, he's T5 so a tough guy to crack anyway.

@BarBoBot I meant that I'd have one unit of 15 and one unit of 5 in the GA.

@Binks I assume that normally in your shooting phase you can predict which unit will attack you. Still I need some more input on replacing the three Lords for an Overlord and two Tremor-teks with Crucibles. If I use a Storm-tek I'm still being assaulted by hopefully less troops but with hordes a few casualties will not do very much.

Thanks for the input, I now almost have a completed list.

Hey, it's true that you could use the tremor to hit the probable assaulting unit in your shooting phase, but with the stormtek with lightening shield you would have a fantastic anti tank addition plus 4 snap shots in assault defence, and d6 auto hits in defence to an assault, plus while the idea of tremor staves are reasonable having the unit only attack one unit that may assault you is not as good as having a unit that can hit whatever it wants and then put up a better defence in an assault phase, that's only my opinion, but of all the teks transmog isn't what I'd go with, everyone is different though and having a list that's tailored to your wants and needs rather than to "the best possible" is better

@Binks I'll just try all the setups and see how they work. I think this is simply preference now.

My fault, I thought the tremor stave does what the crucible does.

Still, you do not need two HQ choices. Just take a single crucible-tek and job done.