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Hey all,

Had a fun game last night using my guard against a really nice ork player ? all-in-all, a really enjoyable experience. I'm playing a bit more than I usually do to get some practice in for the Dark Stars campaign weekend, and a couple of questions came up that I didn't really have a very good answer for. I was hoping someone could chime in with some thoughts on these:

1) After a close-run combat, one of my squads failed their leadership test and attempted to break and run, using their I. The wording in the Big Grey Book says roll a D6 and add it 'to the I characteristic'. This led to a quick discussion about whether the base I should be used, or whether factors affecting it should be taken into consideration: The orks had Waaagh!ed, meaning their I was doubled to 4 (the nob's to 6), while my guard were benefitting from Close Order Drill, bringing theirs to 4. So, assuming we both roll 4, what happens?

a) We use the base I characteristic (3 for me, 2 for him); and I run 2D6", while he consolidates 3". Glorious escape!

b) We use the altered I characteristics for both squads (4 for both); and my poor soldiers are caught and killed.

c) Waaagh! doubles the orks characteristic for the turn, while COD doesn't affect my guardsmen for 'running away like frightened deer' purposes ? so I'm I3, he's I4 and I'm dogmeat...

d) Something else?

In the event, I got butchered like a cow with bovine spongiform encephalopathy; and saw a miserable defeat for the Lamb's World  Fifty-fifth... Perhaps I'd better get painting their nid-hunting cousin regiment and go for the throat

I appreciate the help of anyone who can throw some light on this!

Some checks are made to unmodified stats and say so, others are made to the stat in its current state, taking into account any modifications. Looks to me from the description in the bgb that you use the statistic as is, not the "unmodified" statistic.

Since you need to exceed your opponents total in close combat to escape, your guard should have been butchered. I'm not intimately familiar with guard though so I don't know if something about close order drill prevents them from using their I bonus in close combat for escaping, but unless there is something that specifically prohibits it, I would say they get the bonus just as the orks get theirs.

You use the "I characteristic". Modifications aren't relevant. So orks are always 2+d6 when sweeping.

I'm not sure where the confusion is.

Thanks for the replies: one of the problems with using a 3rd edition codex with 4th edition ruleset! The main sticking point is the wording of the Ork codex, which says the orks 'initiative characteristic is doubled' for the turn... I can see how it could be argued, and to be honest I'd be quite happy for an ork player to use interpretation c), since it'll save me an argument.

Page 43 very clearly says "the I characteristic without any modifiers", so no dice for sweeping better with WAAAGH.

The ork codex is old and say "Orks who make a sweeping advance into the ennemy also use the power of the waaagh!"

The sweepng advance rule has changed a lot since that time but the waaagh rule say it apply

Interesting point. I'm inclined to agree with you now.

Consensus on option 'c', then?

Not concensus on C, but rather on the fact that Waaagh specifically states it applies to sweeping advances.

And with nothing in the FAQ stating otherwise, I think the case has actually become quite clear-cut.