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So a while back myself and a few other members of the community began work on a complete redo of the 40k rules and codices. Normally I would just post in one of those threads, but they are all pretty well buried now so I thought I'd start a new one.

Quite a bit has happened over the last while, but that's not what I'm here for. What am I here to say is that I have not given up on this ruleset and am still working on it whenever I get the chance. I have recruited a few friends to help write codices, but the main rulebook is being revised as we speak (I have a complete version of it on my laptop minus pictures.)

Some highlights of the changes with Grimdark:
-A counter system is used instead of "you-go-I-go." No longer do you have to wait 20+ minutes before your turn comes back around.
-New stats that are much more intuitive. Now there is Agility, Dexterity, Accuracy, Stealth, etc.
-Grimdark doesn't restrict any of the models that you use. The size of the model is established by its entry in the codex, past that you can use what you want.
-Dynamic missions that are much more interactive than "kill each other" or "cap this point in the middle of nowhere."
-Ammunition types and Armor types. Weapons are now Kinetic, Corrosive, or Thermal and units have armor to counteract each one.
-Unit entries are much more appealing now and are graphically represented whenever possible. Additionally, armies are highly customizable and easily themed to your tastes.

Those are all just skimming the surface for the changes present in a single cohesive ruleset. Oh, and did I mention that the entire rulebook is less than 50 pages long? It is entirely feasible to read through the rulebook and a codex, plan an army, and get playing within a few hours.


All I ask of the community now is to help with revisions and play testing. I will give credit for all help given in the rulebook, giving particular thanks to those who help play test.

Below is a summary of all the codices and rulebooks with their progress documented:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2v_bf8w7DEaZHI1VnNkY2ZReGs&usp=sharing

Rulebook: 90%
Space Marines: 90%
Tyranids: 90%
Daemons: 85% (Currently updating ammo/armor types)
Tau: 80% (Currently updating ammo/armor types)
Orks: 0%
Eldar: 10%
Dark Eldar: 10%
Imperial Guard: 0%
Necrons: 0%

Note on percentages:


Change log:

Looks promissing, i will give it a try.

(i dont want to spam, so i will edit the message, original post is exatcly the upper text, from now on, only new stuff in this post).

I really find it great, and will be testing it very soon. Loved the "green/yellow/red" marks, and well, it is what 40k should be for me.

I will playtest it, and give you some opinions. Maybe i even try to write an Orkz codex for it.

I am not very experienced in wargames, but i tried some in the last 3 years, this one seens to be the best one i have found so far, no kidding here (but it will have to survive the "test of the real thing" )

That sounds good to me, and hopefully I will finish updating the codices soon.

I've made some pretty considerable changes, check out the preview to the Tyranids Codex when you get the chance.

Also, apologies to everyone who has downloaded the rulebook. I uploaded an older version on accident. Please download the newest version from the drive

Taking my scond look on it, but still need to found time to actually test the rules. (in theory, they sound awesome).

I liked the "round thing" on stats, but it will look better if the values are writen, not only indicated by the shadow.

Alright, I'll add the values. I see your point with those and it shouldn't be too much trouble to do that

Oh, another quick note. I made some pretty substantial changes to the psychic powers in the most recent version. I've been making a lot of small corrections throughout the book recently so I'll upload it to the drive again to make sure everyone is on the same page.

The Space Marine codex is about half way through being updated. I'm anticipating/hoping to finish it tomorrow. That should give you a good starting point for trying it out Please let me know how it goes.

Final Draft of the Space Marine Codex has been completed and uploaded!

This is definitely in need of play testing, and I'm sure quite a bit is unbalanced. However, the guts of it are all there so please enjoy

*Note: A few minor updates have been made to the rulebook too. I recommend downloading it again before playing.

Major change may be coming as I've thought of a new way to deal with armor saves and the like. If I get positive responses I'll change this, and if I get no responses I'll still probably change it as I think it speeds the game up considerably.


Alright, so the universal chart is instead going to be made into the "to hit" chart with the following change to its spread:
If = then 4+
If within two then 3+ or 5+
If within four then 2+ or 6+
Past that is automatic or impossible

Next, to simplify the system and speed it up there are no longer armor saves. Instead the four stats that make up damage (Strength, RV, AP, and AV) are combined and a single roll is made.

First, take the AV that corresponds to the ammo of the weapon.
Then subtract the AP from that, with 0 being the minimum.
Then add the RV to that.

Now to see if you damage the target, the roll a D6 and add it to the Strength of the weapon. If that beats the total above then a wound is dealt.

Here's an example:
Say a unit has these stats
-RV of 5
-Kinetic AV of 3

Gets hit with a weapon with these stats
-Strength of 3
-AP of 2
-Kinetic Ammo

AV - AP = 1
1 + RV = 6
So a 4+ would be needed in order to wound because the Strength is 3.

Overwhelming Strength (the rule that adds extra wounds) would be changed to if the defensive value is beaten by 4 or more it deals extra wounds for everything past that.

New example:
Unit is RV 3
Unit has Thermal AV of 1

Weapon is Str 5
AP is 3
Ammo is Thermal

1 - 3 = 0
0 + RV = 3

So the weapon would automatically wound in this case, but it has a chance at Overwhelming Strength. The firing player would roll a D6 and if a 2 or more is rolled than additional wounds would be dealt (one extra for rolling a 2, two extra fora 3, three extra for 4, etc.)

This would cause a pretty steep shift in stats, but considering I've only finished the Space Marine codex that's not too hard for me to take care of.


So what do you think?

Pros:
-Faster gameplay
-Simpler gameplay

Cons:
-The player being shot at doesn't have the chance to "save" his models

Major change may be coming as I've thought of a new way to deal with armor saves and the like. If I get positive responses I'll change this, and if I get no responses I'll still probably change it as I think it speeds the game up considerably.

Alright, so the universal chart is instead going to be made into the "to hit" chart with the following change to its spread:
If = then 4+
If within two then 3+ or 5+
If within four then 2+ or 6+
Past that is automatic or impossible

Next, to simplify the system and speed it up there are no longer armor saves. Instead the four stats that make up damage (Strength, RV, AP, and AV) are combined and a single roll is made.

Cons:
-The player being shot at doesn't have the chance to "save" his models

Sounds very similar to what Icyfireknights and I have been doing over on the New 40K Ruleset Thread, so id suggest the same solution we came up with to people not having the chance to "save" their models as what we used; Rather than rolling to wound, flip the value the other way and let it be the value needed to save rather than the value needed to wound. Exact same math, you just have the other player involved this way.

For example, my model is hit, and will be wounded on a 3+. Rather than have the attacking player roll 3+ to wound, let the defending player roll a 5+ to save the hit.

You're probably going to have to change wording quite a bit to fit this new method, but at least both players are involved in damage resolution rather than one just sitting there having his models taken off the board.

I like that a lot; it keeps all the pros and gets rid of the con.

Math would work out like so:
Take the respective AV and subtract the AP, then add RV.
Roll and you need a D6 to beat the Strength of the weapon.

I can keep the same terminology for "Resolving a Wound" and just make it so after a hit the defending player gets the chance to save their models. I'm sure there are going to be a lot of particulars but I can make it work once I get the time to write this up. Overwhelming Strength would kick in the same as well.


I've been meaning to check out your guys' thread but time has been pretty limited. From what I saw there was quite a bit that I thought was interesting.

Hi folks.
Here is the simple universal damage resolution I am using.(Without tables.)

Roll to save.
Roll a D6 and ADD the models Armour value (AV 1 to 15)
If this value if HIGHER than the weapon hit Armour Penetration value(AP 5 to 20), the model has PASSED the armour save roll.The armour deflected/ absorbed the weapon hit..

IF the armour save roll FAILS.
What the model FAILED the armour save roll by is called the PENETRATION value of the weapon hit.(0 to 5)
ADD this to the weapon DAMAGE value .(1 to 10)

If this TOTAL is UPTO the models Resilience value the model becomes suppressed.
If it is over the models resilience value it looses a wound/structure point.

Over Double target Resilience value =target looses 2 wounds/structure points,
Over Triple targets Resilience value = instant death/destroyed.

Mind you my rule set in development is so far from current 40k , this may not be suitable for your game?

I've been incredibly busy lately so it's hard for me to spare time for 40k and Dakka, so apologies for not responding earlier.


Lanrak,

I think you and I have some similar thoughts but you're a little more ready to diverge from GW than I am (old habits die hard )

I spent a few days trying to find a good way to balance the style you were saying (as it's similar to what was mentioned.) For the life of me, I couldn't do it without causing the game to stratify like crazy and having the a good number of models not have any chance to harm other models. So I went back on what I was saying and have combined the chart with it, but a little differently.

Now, instead of having flat values it follows the same process as before but you have a "Total Defense" stat that you roll against the weapons Strength in a Resiliency check.

Total Defense = AV - AP (minimum of 0) + RV

It still cuts the number of rolls down, and keeps the system consistent throughout the book by still using the same table.

I've uploaded the newest version with the Space Marine book updated. I'm hoping to get a play test in some time in the next few weeks, but with a midterm that could prove difficult.


*Note: Also, I decided I should actually upload the excel spreadsheet I use to simulate scenarios. It's on the drive and feel free to download and play with it. You should only need to touch the values on the right side.

Hi Rabid,
Your solution seems to fit your rules very well, and reduces the number of dice rolls, excellent job!

As I am free of 'GW preconceptions' I was perfectly happy to have some units completely uneffected by some weapons.

For example 'small arms' are common and only effect light and medium infantry units that are most common .
Support (and fire support,)weapons arrive in anti infantry and anti armour roles, that effect heavier targets.

The larger single models that are impervious to lots of ranged weapons , are to slow and clumbersome to fight in close assault effectively, this is where more numerous and agile troops hold the advantage.(Weight of numbers plays a big part in assault resolution.)

I looked at the over all way actual modern combat works and tried to balanced UNITS capabilities against each other in the context of the whole interaction of the game play.

Mind you you will probably have you rule set completely finished before I get to beta test!

Here is the latest version of my development WIP.
I would appreciate your opinion of them..

Of course I'll take a look, you've given so much feedback on mine it'd be incredibly rude not to

Time is quite an issue as of late, though I just finished my midterm this past week so maybe I'll get some time soon. Do you already have a thread for this? If not I'll PM you when I have given it a good read through, but if you do I'll post there and give it a good bump

With my midterm done I procrastinated on some homework to make time to relax and knock out the Tyranids codex! It's up on the drive and ready to play test.

On that note, I actually have time for once to give this a proper play test against a friend of mine.

It'll be Space Marines vs Tyranids.

Space Marine List:
(Raven Traits)

Headquarters:
Captain
---Jump Pack
---Chosen
---Power Scythe
---Bolt Pistol

Core:
Scout Marines
---10 Man squad
---Sergeant has Missile Launcher

Assault Marines
---10 Man squad
---2 Flamers
---Sergeant has Power Sword and Hand Flamer

Support:
Veterans
---5 Man squad
---Chosen
---Jump Packs
---All have Power Lances and Storm Shields

Land Speeder Squadron
---2 Man squad
---Missile Launchers
---Heavy Bolters


Tyranids

Headquarters:
Tervigon
---Crushing Claws
---Last Chance (6+)
---Two Psychic Powers (Catalyst & Paroxysm)

Core:
Gaunts
---30 Hormagaunts

Gaunts
---30 Termagaunts

Warriors
---6 Man squad
---Adrenal Glands
---Bounding Leap
---Scything Talons
---Rending Claws

Support:
Tanglefex


This is going to be quite the fight!

I am tottaly up for a "to Hit" roll and a "to wound" roll (why dont call it "to damage"?). Why not making it a S vs RV roll, where AV and AP are "modifiers", there is, the AV-AP is just a bonus on the RV of the model, and can be negativo too.

Kings of War show us that sometimes, giving all the rolls to the same player can save a lot of time...

And i like the new comparation "table" a lot more. It is simplier to remember, wich means better for that type of thing.

The lack of time give me trouble to test the system some more times. Sorry for that...

So lesson learned about procrastination with this class; the time it takes to catch up only increases the longer you put it off haha.

Anyways, so here are some of the lessons learned:
-Scout Marines do fantastic for taking out precision targets, just as they're meant to.
-Missile Launchers I think do exactly what they're supposed to do, but the added accuracy of being a blast weapon means that the points needed to go up a bit.
-All blast weapons in general seem to need to go up a bit on points. The devastation they can wreak is pretty impressive.
-Extra armor is incredibly powerful. It drives the need for a hard counter. Storm Shields went up in points because of this. The veteran unit I was using just would not die to anything.
-Flamethrowers in close combat are exceptional if you can set it up correctly. They absolutely fry gaunts, but it's hard to get a shot off with it because of friendly models. It seems to be perfect for a unit that's outnumbered, which is exactly the way it should be.
-Holy cow units with Bounding Leap are fast. 21" charge ranges are common for Tyranids because of this.
-The Raven trait was tested for Marines and it seems to be dead on for what it should do. It doesn't make them really any more powerful, but they will ALWAYS outdeploy you. Seems to lend itself to a cunning commander.
-The game feels much bloodier. Units tend to die very quickly if you use the right counter.


I think that sums up the majority of the lessons learned. Hoping to get another test in here soon, and these updates have been loaded.

Also, Daemons are next up to be completed. I would anticipate finishing them by Thanksgiving. I'm actually hoping to finish Daemons and Tau during that time.