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A long time ago, I played space marines (yup, I confess to contributing to the MEQ infection that's spreading faster than the botox craze...). In particular I've always liked the dark angels, dark, moody, downright dour at times.

I was just wondering, with all the recent craze about podders (ok, not that recent...) and the competition to see who can squeeze the biggest number of assault cannons into a list, I'm wondering why I don't seem to see that many deathwing armies, but instead see lots of vanilla marine pod lists.

I'm just curious, by playing deathwing, you do not need to spend all those points on non-AC carrying troop choices, and by taking terminator squads as troops, you free your elite slots for AC-totting dreadnoughts, similar to using traits to use HS slots for dreadnoughts in vanilla lists. I was messing with a deathwing list that has the compulsory librarian with retinue, 2 termie squads, and 3 dreads for a total of 9 ACs in a 1.5k list, more than what I could have squeezed into a vanilla list without going crazy on land speeders...

So why aren't deathwing pod armies more popular compared to vanilla lists like say mauleed's popular AC-heavy list? Or are there some hidden weaknesses/flaws with deathwing podders that I'm not aware of?

Remember that DW termies cost 6 points more than your basic terminator. Aside from that, I agree that DW looks like a fun army.

6 points more? Nope, just 5 points more for "stubborn"

Ah, I stand corrected.

But how will it fare compared to the other podder armies? Will the low body count and the higher cost per termie make it not worth it?

I thought it'll be great fo somer AC-totting madness, and the bodycount is not that much lower than other termie/AC heavy pod lists anyway, which tend to bring only 2 tac squads of 5 men each and use the rest of the points on termies and dreads.

That said, how effective are such termie+AC heavy armies anyway? With such a ridiculously low bodycount, can the assault cannons compensate for that and deal enough damage before the termies bite the dust? I thought with all those las/plas madness from IG and marines and the dreaded starcannons from eldar, such an army will be toast very quickly especially if they drop in piecemeal. Do drop pods work better for assault based lists rather than shooty/AC based lists?

i can tell you

.they are 5 points more not 6, we have to pay for stubborn

you are looing at what 9 assault cannons in your list, if you really want to min/max you can run 6-5 man squads with 2 in each for a total of 12 and a decent command IC but you have no points left over for pods

terminators can always deepstrike even if the scenerio rules do not allow it, if you put them in pods then they cannot, which means you loose the drop pods for that game and the 30 points you paid for each.

i run 10 man squads in my deathwing, cannot do that if you take pods, altough i know a couple people who run 5 man squads who do not use pods either. the main reason is poinsts cost, its a small army to begin with adding pods takes away even more points with the only benefit being to the scatter roles.

the other reason of course is monetary. GW has not released any plastic drop pods as such you have to buy the FW ones that run almost $100 each. i only know a couple people who are willing to shell out the cash.

the problem with assault based armies, while it does get them across the table better than a ground vehicle there are only 5 and they have to stand there for a round of being shot at. and if they come in piecmeal in front of say a gaurd army, they are not likely to survive long enough to assault.

I would only pod dreads in a DW list and in fact the last time I did use pods I lost my dread very quickly ( I have two forgeworld pods). i tend not to like dreads as much as I used to but I still use them as I have them. Tankhunting termie squads last longer. I rarely DS my DWs as they fare better footslogging up field. They are not an assault army - they are a shooty army. Against alot of armies I'll move only far enough to fire and then backwards if they try and tie me up in combat.
I've played DW along time - I've gotten quite good at usng cover and LoS to minimize my casualties while getting into range.
I lngago gave up LrCs and assault squads as they rarely made back their points. I do not see pods faring any better.
I do'nt think money is the key issue why pods are not seen in DW lists. If that were the case no armies would use them. They just do not make sense with DW.

If it helps any, I do run a drop-podding Deathwing army and so here's my army list. I haven't playtested it that much though, only a few games so far, but it's proven to be rather effective thus far:

1 x Epistolary: FW/SB, Fear + Fury, Homer

1 x Command squad: 4 Terminators: 2 assault cannons, Pod

2 x Deathwing squads: 5 Terminators: 2 assault cannons, Homers, Pods

2 x Dreads: assault cannons + heavy flamers, extra armor, Pods

2 x Deathwing squads: 5 Terminators each: 2 assault cannons (always deep striking)

Thanks for the advice guys!

But in the codex it's stated that drop pods can also deepstrike even in missions that do not normally allow deep strike too, just like regular termies.

Would you deepstrike termies in normally, or with drop pods? Is 30points worth it for a guaranteed safe landing as well as a vehicle to help block LOS/assault moves against the termies? I'm not sure...

Also, would you deepstrike termies in the first place? Or would foot-slogging them up the board be better? I realised deepstriking may mean your army comes in piecemeal, but footslogging up the table may mean lots of casualties before they even reach the enemy, especially against shooty SM, eldar or IG armies with lots of las/plas and starcannon love.

And given the comments in this thread, am I correct to say that armies benefiting most from the pod are assault-based armies rather than short-ranged shooty armies? Although I've always thought that the pods helped mitigate somewhat the short range of the assault cannon, and in this aspect it would work well with deathwing. I'm curious as to why would pods be useful in other assault cannon-heavy lists but not deathwing?

I've found that 30 pts to be well woth it to block LOS and set up certain enemy units to be blown away that turn. In addition, there's nothing like a Dread with a heavy flamer landing next to an uber-cover squad, like Pathfinders, and taking them out in one shooting phase, whereas it might take more than two otherwise, depending on their cover save. And if you try to advance and assault them, it might take you a while to reach them, depending on where they're placed and where you landed/scattered.

I only have DSing Terminators because I didn't have the points for more pods. Footslogging or DSing depends on your opponent: I have an all-DSing army list for 1850, but at the last tournament I brought them to, I didn't feel the need to DS in any of the missions against any of my opponents because none of them had any especially fearsome shooting capability. And the one that did had mostly short-range plasma guns and melta guns in an all-infiltrating army in a mission where infiltrate wasn't allowed.

I think you're incorrect in assuming assault armies benefit the most from pods; in my experience, and from reading the bat reps of others, it's the medium to short range shooty pod armies that work the best, with things like Apothecary Vet Sgts tossed in for personal preference and flavor.

Finally, I don't see why pods aren't useful in the Deathwing: you immediately put your opponent on the defensive and force him to react to your own movements, instead of the opposite. Though it's becoming easier to fight against pod armies as players gain more experience against them, they're still a tough army in the right hands. Pods are probably more useful in other lists because you can get more of them and more units as well, along with additional flexibility, while the Deathwing list forces you to take more expensive units and thus have fewer of them and fewer pods. You can get Speeders, Dreads, Terminators, small melta and/or plasma Tac squads, and more characters with command squads in a regular or Trait Marine list.

I like some in pods and some not.

I've got 3 units of terminators not in pods, and I occasionally start them on the board (like against nids).

Good call, Ed, that's what I do with the two squads that mostly deep strike: sometimes I have them start on the board. But then, your army list is stronger because you have plenty of assault cannons AND support units, like Dreads, Speeders, Characters with Command squads, etc. With the Deathwing, there's not a lot of choices out there, especially since the DA can't take Allies of any sort.

For pure Deathwing, I think having the 6 man squads is more important than the drop pods, although there's something to be said for instant terrain. I've been considering a pod for my command squad, however. They could use the extra protection.

Ezz

We've got a fairly successful DW player 'round these parts, and he uses about a 50/50 mix of pods in his deepstrike-fantastic force. Dreads, of course, always are in pods. Good considerations for podding are 'close in' units like Assault or AC-toting Termis. Missle squads do best on foot, which are the ones only 5 strong.

The reason to add a pod for an up-close squad is to provide cover. In the case of Assault Termies, this is -vital-, as is some support DSing next to them as well. Dreads can't normally DS, so they're a no-brainer. As for the larger AC squads, well, they can't fit, so they're natural 'sloggers' as well.