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Are there any good books on the Black Library or otherwise that deal with orks (either as the main enemy or told from their point of view)? Things from Armageddon would be fantastic but anywhere else is great as well! I know there is Helsreach, which mainly follows Grimauldus on Armageddon. Does that have a fair amount of orky goodness in it?

Well on the Black Library page there's a list of novels based on factions or series. There just isn't one that's on the Orks POV.

IMO, on one hand, the Greenskins are potentially interesting sorts to write about: their social structure, their technology, etc., because they are so under-exploited. The most extensive source of the Orks is the 4th edition codex, and there's no sign of a new codex for them either (but there just might be one, it just might).

On the other hand, the entire Greenskin species are designed to be simplistic. Every aspect is written ambiguously, and deliberately so. There isn't much a writer can go on focusing on the "simplistic" socializing skills.

Their conversations will probably be like

Warboss: "Oye! Le'z go n' beat those pink-skins into pulps."

Gretchin: "But they''z got da Big, Biggg Dakka on da Rock, and our ships can't beat it!"

Warboss: "BARRRGGgghhhh, I sayz there'z gonna be er Waaagh, and there'z gonna be e' Waaaaaggggghhhhhh; so quit ya naggin' en' get daz Nobz 'ere!!!"

Gretchin: "Aye aye Boss, just don't hit me!!!!"
*proceeds to kick the snotlings around him and drive them to deliver the Warboss's summoning to the Bosses and Nobs*

Like you said, there's Helsreach, Blood and Fire, both by ADB and recently released together as Armageddon (anthology). There's the various Imperial Guard novels: Gunheads, Fifteen Hours, Death World, Rebel Winter, Imperial Glory... all these feature Orks as the enemy.

Keep in mind that antagonists in 40k novels tend to be cannonfodder for the heroes. The books are almost always biased towards the protagonists, usually with liberal amounts of plot armour, or sheer stupidity of everyone else. According to Dan Abnett, this is one of the reasons for why Black Library was "split off" from the main GW brand - as the authors felt too limited by the balance that exists in the tabletop game, thinking that it would make for poor storytelling.

So if you like Orks and want to read something cool about them, books where they are the enemy may perhaps be counter-productive to your interests?

That being said, there is of course Deff Skwadron - not a novel, but a comic that tells a story from the Orks' PoV. The drawing style is a bit ... chaotic ... but what did you expect from a book about Orks? ;p

 Billagio wrote:
Are there any good books on the Black Library or otherwise that deal with orks (either as the main enemy or told from their point of view)? Things from Armageddon would be fantastic but anywhere else is great as well! I know there is Helsreach, which mainly follows Grimauldus on Armageddon. Does that have a fair amount of orky goodness in it?

Engine of Mork very good ebook from the Ork pov

its only 30 pages but well written.

If there is a full novel from the Ork pov i want Guy Haley to write it.

 Lynata wrote:
So if you like Orks and want to read something cool about them, books where they are the enemy may perhaps be counter-productive to your interests?

It shouldn't be, considering TC asked for books with Orks as antagonists as well as protagonists.

I know what you're saying, though. There's a lot of "bolter porn" out there, where heroic forces of the Imperium (usually of the Space Marine variety) go around charging whatever fills in for villain-of-the-week in that particular novel, shrug off whatever damage is thrown their way whilst BLAM-BLAM-ing their way through the entire population of whatever world they're stomping. However, that's no license to tar all of BL with the same brush and assume every antagonist force in every BL novel are written as poor jokes. That's down to the author and the novel. I've not read all of my above suggestions, but Helsreach and Gunheads manage to have Orks come across as a genuine threat, and I've only heard good things about the likes of Fifteen Hours and Imperial Glory when it comes to the brutality and menace of the Orks.

Either way, TC will have to settle for books with Orks as the antagonists barring maybe one or two examples. That doesn't mean there isn't any good novels out there that do the bad guys justice, it's just you need to do a little rooting around, is all.

Anfauglir wrote:That's down to the author and the novel.

Oh, absolutely - which is why I generally recommend short story anthologies to new readers! It's like a "trial" for the different writer styles, as most anthologies let you read stuff from a dozen or more authors.
I was just cautioning against an expectation that Orks must be treated faithfully even in books where they are the enemy.

I haven't read Helsreach or Gunheads, though, so maybe those would work indeed if you say they're an exception from what I would deem the norm. Helsreach is by ADB, and from all I've heard about him he seems to be a very good writer that doesn't seem to need to reach into the same "cheat box" as many others do.

"Imperial Glory" was mentiond already, but i must add that it's only book where "career" of ork is shown from hatching to WeirdBoy boss' glory.
And of course..."Yarrick : Chains of Golgotha"