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So here I am once more with more changes to my growing list and ever evolving GK army as I try to keep the army I know and love amid all these challenges that 6th edition and new codices have been bringing. After playing a few more games, I have really seen the weaknesses and strengths in some units and doing another slightly heavier mod. I have definitely decided to drop most of my terminators. I am still keeping a squad around because I was going to go with purifiers but the slightly tougher to kill along with being a scoring unit I decided to take just one squad of terminators instead of a squad of purifiers. The henchman squad I have works wonderfully and I had fun with the vindicare but really have realized that he isn't as good as he first seems but this is a learning experience for me. So here is the new list I came up with:

HQ:
Coteaz

Troops:
10 GKSS 2 psycannons psybolt ammunition
Rhino psybolt ammunition

10 GKSS 2 psycannons psybolt ammunition
Rhino psybolt ammunition

10 Terminators 2 psycannons 5 hammers 5 Halberds psybolt ammunition

Henchman-
2 Jokaero
3 Warrior Acolytes plasma gun power armor
3 Servitors multi-melta

Fast Attack:
Stormraven TL multi-melta TL Lascannon

Heavy Support:
Dreadnought 2 TL Autocannon psybolt ammunition
Dreadnought 2 TL Autocannon psybolt ammunition

The Terminators use the Stormraven as transport as does one of the dreadnoughts.

Now this right here leaves me at 1,787 points and I have been wondering how to really fill in the rest since this gives me 213 points to really play with some strategy and maybe even give some interesting possibilities. One way I have been thinking of taking this is by keeping my DK in the mix with a heavy incinerator and personal teleporter to fill out the final heavy slot. I have also been thinking about giving my Henchman and Coteaz a Chimera to party around in to have a more mobile heavy weapons team dealing out destruction on the go. Another possibility is to give the henchman squad an Aegis defense line with Coteaz on the quad cannon to give them some safety to fire the big guns from. A final possibility was to put a second HQ in which would be a Librarian that would be attached to the Terminator squad to help support them with Might, Shroud, and Sanctuary as well as bring some servo-skulls along for the ride.
.
That is my ideas and I am having a hard time deciding what I would want to do with those last 213 points

Your list has a pretty solid core. I would drop the psybolt from the rhinos(they are transports, the S5 stormbolter does not make much difference) and drop the power armor from the acolytes. It makes them cost as much as a marine, but they are not marines. Plasma guns are OK, but I would just go with three plasma servitors and lots of acolytes with bolters. The jokaro make the acolytes halfway decent, and the plasma cannons/jokero do the heavy lifting. If you want multi meltas, you have the chimps for that. Also don't transport psyflemen dreads, they should be shooting from the get go. Personally I think stormravens are best with multi melta and assault cannon. The Lascannon is nice for AA, but the cannon is pretty good too, and gives you more versatility.

I think a techmarine would be a great addition to the list. Bolster defenses gives the henchman squad a safer place to hide, and he brings grenades to help in combat. Blind, psychotroke and rad grenades are your best bets. You can take a nemesis weapon if you want, but between the servo harness and power weapon you should have no problem getting the job done. The ability to repair is also nice for your raven just in case. You can also get servo skulls cheaper on the techmarine(and these work with the plasma cannons!) than a libby.

A chimera is also an excellent idea for the henchman, but if it explodes a fair amount will die. You can always start them out of it. An ADL is ok too, but if you have the techmarine to bolster you don't need it as much.

 Dr. Serling wrote:
Your list has a pretty solid core. I would drop the psybolt from the rhinos(they are transports, the S5 stormbolter does not make much difference) and drop the power armor from the acolytes. It makes them cost as much as a marine, but they are not marines. Plasma guns are OK, but I would just go with three plasma servitors and lots of acolytes with bolters. The jokaro make the acolytes halfway decent, and the plasma cannons/jokero do the heavy lifting. If you want multi meltas, you have the chimps for that. Also don't transport psyflemen dreads, they should be shooting from the get go. Personally I think stormravens are best with multi melta and assault cannon. The Lascannon is nice for AA, but the cannon is pretty good too, and gives you more versatility.

I think a techmarine would be a great addition to the list. Bolster defenses gives the henchman squad a safer place to hide, and he brings grenades to help in combat. Blind, psychotroke and rad grenades are your best bets. You can take a nemesis weapon if you want, but between the servo harness and power weapon you should have no problem getting the job done. The ability to repair is also nice for your raven just in case. You can also get servo skulls cheaper on the techmarine(and these work with the plasma cannons!) than a libby.

A chimera is also an excellent idea for the henchman, but if it explodes a fair amount will die. You can always start them out of it. An ADL is ok too, but if you have the techmarine to bolster you don't need it as much.

I also though about adding a techmarine in that slot as well. I guess the one question is would he be able to join the terminators in the stormraven or would he have to be back with the hencman from the bolster defenses? I have never used a techmarine before so I am unfamiliar with how they work. I know that you do the bolster the defenses before the match begins but I am unsure exactly how they work. The one thing I was thinking was keeping the techmarine with the terminators and the second dreadnought because they all would be coming in the Stormraven so that the techmarine could repair both if need be and give a little support to the terminators.

Taking the techmarine would give me the ability to take the chimera for the henchman as well but if I bolstered a set of ruins, I don't see the point really. As long as I didn't take too much on the techmarine, I could also still have the ADL but again as you said, the bolster kind of eliminates the need for an ADL. If I did remove of the stuff you said, it would certainly give me the amount of points to do what you said so there is a little to think about. Honestly, if I take the techmarine, I might end up taking another space monkey to add three to the henchman group so that way they have just another anti-armor. A third lascannon that can re-roll, hell yeah.

I guess the reason why I always take the TL Lascannon on the Stormraven is because I have gotten my ass kicked by armor way too much but the addition of the heavy weapons henchman along with the multi-melta that is on the raven already can help take care of armor. Not to mention the dreads that I would be bringing enough of that so I can understand taking it off and that would give the stormraven some anti-infratry. You have given me a lot to think about.

Also, my terminators get slaughtered so that is one reason why I wanted to take the libby to help support the unit with some awesome pysker powers as well as give me some crowd control with his psychic powers list.

@OP

I believe you have a pretty dran solid list here. I personally havent had much sucess with strike squads but hey if they work for you by all means take it. I think the 10man terminator squad should 5 man instead of 10 though. There is so much fire power out there right now and terminators as you said dont last long at all. I do believe 5 terminators for just a drop and pop or objective camping role makes for a good squad as they have 2+ saves and can ignore heldrakes flaming them inside a ruins. They are also an easier unit to drop on objectives than a full 10 man squad. I'd trade out those 5 for an extra strom raven with the full shubang

You should really think about a chimera for your henchmen squad precisely for the reason of Tau removing cover saves and heldrakes removing cover saves... you will lose them alot that way

On SR take the AC over the Lascannon it has 4 shots and rending giving it the same capability of penetrating like a lascannon just with 3 more extra shots I'd also advise the hurricane bolters with psybolt ammo..for the full shubang 255.. expensive but absolutely worth it.

Finally if you have any left over points I'd consider bringing some more henchmen units in razorbacks with psybolt ammo for the ability to present more targets for your opponent to shoot at in addition you will get some more scoring units, more long ranged fire and really a cheap source of fire to pop light armored vehicles from a far for First Blood/ a cheap way of making your opponent have to take grounding checks on flying MC.

Hope this helps

 Dezstiny wrote:
@OP

I believe you have a pretty dran solid list here. I personally havent had much sucess with strike squads but hey if they work for you by all means take it. I think the 10man terminator squad should 5 man instead of 10 though. There is so much fire power out there right now and terminators as you said dont last long at all. I do believe 5 terminators for just a drop and pop or objective camping role makes for a good squad as they have 2+ saves and can ignore heldrakes flaming them inside a ruins. They are also an easier unit to drop on objectives than a full 10 man squad. I'd trade out those 5 for an extra strom raven with the full shubang

You should really think about a chimera for your henchmen squad precisely for the reason of Tau removing cover saves and heldrakes removing cover saves... you will lose them alot that way

On SR take the AC over the Lascannon it has 4 shots and rending giving it the same capability of penetrating like a lascannon just with 3 more extra shots I'd also advise the hurricane bolters with psybolt ammo..for the full shubang 255.. expensive but absolutely worth it.

Finally if you have any left over points I'd consider bringing some more henchmen units in razorbacks with psybolt ammo for the ability to present more targets for your opponent to shoot at in addition you will get some more scoring units, more long ranged fire and really a cheap source of fire to pop light armored vehicles from a far for First Blood/ a cheap way of making your opponent have to take grounding checks on flying MC.

Hope this helps

The one reason why I have the terminators at 10 strength is because they don't seem to last long in 5 man groups. That is an interesting set up though and having an extra stormraven on the battlefield certainly would turn things in my favor. I have definitely wanted to buy another too, especially when wanting to run a 3,000 point game. The only problem with that is the amount of money a stormraven is. The list I have constructed is utilizing a lot of models I have already procured and trying to tweek the army to make it a bit more competetive than what I had it before so at this point I have been trying to save a bit of money. That is definitely an awesome suggestion though and I definitely want to try it out once it becomes monetarily possible because the stormraven is probably one of my favorite units followed swiftly by dreadnoughts.

I am definitely going to try out the AC on the stormraven though. Taking psybolt ammunition putting up to a S7 would certainly make a difference and with the dreads and henchman, I guess I do have a lot more shooty armor pen than I thought. And the hurricane bolters would also give me some crowd control as well therefore rounding out the stormraven to whatever I need it to be. The only thing that ever kept me from doing this is the point value because a full tricked out stormraven is 255 points but if I tweek a little more, I probably could make it fit.

I do agree with you on taking the chimera to protect the henchman but with that I do have a couple of questions. Would Coteaz still be able to use Divination in the chimera to buff them for their re-rolls? And my other hesitation is that the chimera only has 5 firing ports and I have 8 heavy weapon henchman which would make me have to choose which 5 get to fire but that would make it more situational. It is something that I have been bouncing back and forth with but the removing cover is definitely what concerns me the most but how much will the chimera help if it explodes and kills everyone inside? I have experienced that things in power armor may survive a vehicle explosion but henchman not so much which is why I become hesitant. I think if I decide to take the techmarine, I definitely would decide not to get the ADL, and use the extra 100 points to buff and probably atleast take the chimera. The Librarian would take too many points to really leave anything to do with.

You mentioned that you haven't had luck with GKSS, and I was wondering, what do you use for your main body force to score and push the lines?

I would love to add more henchman and that definitely would give more firepower but their squeshy bodies kind of makes me a little hesistant unless they were in a safe mobile metal box but I don't know if that would be supported in a 2000 point game but I definitely would take another in anything exceeding 2000.

At this point, I am probably bouncing between the techmarine and librarian. To me they both provide some interesting possibilities and both of them will be in more of a support role, just in different ways. I really just want to be able to have effective terminators and I am hoping that the librarian would be able to do that with it's psyker powers but this could be just wishful thinking since I have seen the battle reports on how bad terminators are in this edition. Plus, I have always wanted a psyker unit that can do awesome big things on the battlefield, like warp rift. I am going to play test both capabilities and I might end up buying both and using them depending on what kind of armies I would be facing.

@OP

I deffinitely agree that play testing is the only real way to decide on units... so erally all we are doing is uh scheming but as for the chimera henchmen... I am not to sure that he would be able to cast prescience on the unit as they are in the vehicle and not a unit that is technically fitting within the realms of 12 or wutever inches (don't have my book on me right now) Personally if someone did that against me, as I am a rationalist and free thinker understand they are inside of the rhino would allow it... however there are those I would imagine say that you can't do that as they aren't "on the table"

A good question for "Ask Dakka Threads"

between Chimera and no Chimera...
+
Protection from heldrakes, marker lights, posion weapons
transport
Line of Sight Blocker
chimera blows first mitigating damage rather than taking direct wounds from shooting
of loads of str 6+ fire power and templates

These are the reason why I would take the chimera. There is a relatively good chance a scenario above would happen where one of those aspects of taking the chimera will come to use.

ADL
your army is fairly mobile I wouldn't take the ADL as you won't really get a serious benefit form using it... your strikes and terminators have to go out capping objectives they don't have the time to stay at home plus there guns only have 24"range. In addition to that you have a storm raven and 2 psyfleman dreads that are more than capable of dealing with flyers. I'd leave this piece at home.

between techmarine and librarian... I'd say... try them both out and see how they do. I think they'd both have their place. techmarine repairing your command chimera/ reinforcing a building to a 3+ coversave for your dreadnoughts or a libby to provide support in trying to help out the termis. I'd take warp rift for sure give him a wardstave and dependant on Coteaz' power try my luck with divination in some games to give him re-rollable saves... a 2+, and 2++ re-rollable in close combat provided they get there is a sure win dinger.


Personally I have went the shunt route with Grey Knights , interceptors w 2x incinerators, SR or 5 Termis psycannon array of weapons w coteaz( I switch em out periodically), 2x dreadknights w PT and HT, and take allied Space wolves for Grey hunters 2x flamers and a drop pod(acting as my 2nd interceptor squad 1st turn drop pod assault) in addition to a rune priest for psychic protection and Jaws for monstrous creatures. I then fill my scoring units with a number of henchmen squads in psybacks and use them to get first blood, capture objectives, wall my termis, and put down flying MC's while my shunting force applies pressure to my opponents. I have flamers on pretty much everything as there are so many models that these cheap meq and geq armies are putting out there rigtht now. I depend on my Dreadknights to take on the heavy stuff and the RP with Jaws also helps out. I can usually get first blood pretty easy If i go first and flying MCs are pretty easy to take down when you have psybacks popping shots up there for grounding test. I play my army fast and aggressive. I don't want to deal with flyers so the easiest way to do that is be ready to assault coming into t2 nothing like seeing 300+ points practically wasted because they have no targets. Another route I go intells 2x SR, 2x, Dreaknight, Interceptors, loads of henchmen in psybacks in addition to coteaz w death cult assassins in 1 of the 2 stormravens. they are both fast hard hitting and can deal with most armies. these are both 1750pt list btw.

As far as choosing between Techmarine and Librarian, I have basically decided to buy both and try them out. I was going to end up buying a Librarian anyway just to put together and paint since I like psykers so much and I just want to have one and the same roughly goes with the Techmarine. I had a lot of fun kit bashing a tank commander for one of my Rhinos and I want to do the same with a Techmarine. The Inquisition Codex also makes it tempting to just take another Ordo Malleus Inquisitor to back up Coteaz but I feel I want more utility from the Librarian in this case.

I definitely see what mean with the Chimera and I am going to pick one up. One of the problems I did have in my game was my henchman totally destroyed by one vollege from a Thunderfire cannon. The only problem I can see now is just whether or not I can have Coteaz in there casting Prescience on the group so they can fire and re-roll in their metal box of protection. Oh, the other problem was a matter of points as well, if I take the Techmarine, this is able to be fit into the 2000 point limit but if I take the Librarian, some tweeking would needed to be done in order to fit enough points to take a Chimera.

That is an interesting army set up and probably the first time I have heard of partnering GK with SW. I admire the concept of it but I don't know if it is quite my playstyle. I usually don't play fast and I don't play too aggressive because I don't like to over-extend myself but maybe that is part of the reason I haven't been as a effective. I tend to like to take more defensive options over overtly offensive ones, likely to outlast my opponent more than anything and when I started my GK this was certainly the case but the battlefield has changed quite a bit since then. I see that you favor incinerators and flamers a lot, I don't know, I just have never been too trusting of them unless it is the Heavy Incinerator off the Dreadknight which seems to always bring good results, especially since you can manipulate the template more. I will say that I do like that ally with the SW, it is something I have been considering sometime now with all the new codecies coming out. I have contemplated Tau, SM and Eldar to help fill in some of the gaps. SM is tempting because I want to run a Blood Raven army eventually and then could run a SM Librarian. Taking the Eldar route, I have been thinking a Farseer and Jetbikes. I have no idea what I would do with Tau, except find a way to use a Riptide...because that thing looks awesome. Hell, at one point I even contemplated Necrons. Don't know though but that RP with Grey Hunters and a drop pod seems pretty awesome.

I was wondering if you could provide the specs of these lists for me to look over. I have been thinking of delving a little more into henchman given their versatility but at the same time, I never liked hording large amounts of weak units. I like having tougher units to kill which is why I liked Terminators so much. I liked Paladins but their cost is even worse than Terminators.

This is the list that I curently like to use
Grey Knights

HQ
Coteaz 100

Troops
5 Terminators 220
1 psycannon
2 hammers
2 halberds
1 sword

Razorback 75
psybolt ammunition
5 warrior acolytes
bolters

Razorback 75
psybolt ammunition
5 warrior acolytes
bolters

Razorback 75
psybolt ammunition
5 warrior acolytes
bolters

Razorback 75
psybolt ammunition
5 warrior acolytes
bolters

Fast Attack
1o Interceptors 300
2 Incinerators

Heavy Support
Nemesis Dreadknight 235
Heavy Incinerator
Teleporter Pack

Nemesis Dreadknight 235
Heavy Incinerator
Teleporter Pack

SW ALLIES
Hq
Rune Preist 145
Artificer Armor 20
Jump Pack 20
melta bomb 5
Jaws

Troops
1o Space Wolves 180
Mark of the Wulfen
Wolf Standard
2 flamers

Drop Pod 35

1750pts

The rune priest I've been playing around with in and out of the grey hunter squad seeing as to how he does given that I have more important threats to worry about rather than a jump pack rune priest jawsing or murderous hurricaning everything. He proves to make up his points quite well in games where psychic powers are highly important such as Daemons,Eldar and Tau. Fly him out of LoS into runis or behind rhinos and just let him cause haveoc by dispelling all of your opponents psychic powers, or getting better positioning on jawsing multiple priority targets. I took a squad of terminators and will throw them in and out from time to tie for a stormraven. They give a strong solid unit for coteaz to hide out in and he can buff them nicely with his expecting rule preventing deepstrikes around him as well as psychic powers. There are plenty of other builds... others I like are

I would like to make a TAC GK list without allies, I know its not as good but I would prefer it if its GK only.

I modified jy2's list but I am not sure if this is any good.

Coteaz. 100 pts
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino - 189
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino - 189
5x Purifiers - 2x Psycannons, 2x Halberds, 1x Hammer, Rhino - 189
3x Henchmen - Melta, Psyback - 72
3x Henchmen - Melta, Psyback - 72
3x Henchmen - Melta, Psyback - 72
3x Henchmen - Plasma, Psyback - 72
3x Henchmen - Plasma, Psyback - 72
HS - Dreadknight - Incinerator - teleporter. 235 pts
HS - Dreadknight - Incinerator - teleporter. 235 pts
HS - Dreadknight - Incinerator - teleporter. 235 pts

by Marthike from the
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1980/460371.page
6th edition and gk changes/tactical thread.

there are some 2x stormraven list that also seem pretty cool I'll post one if I can find it... but yea there are loads of ideas on how to ways to play Gk

quality vs quantity
shunt
allied
2x SR
strikes in rhinos
paladin based
termi based
purifier in rhino spam

you just have to come to grips with that of what you like to play and learn how to play it.

That is a really interesting list that I definitely want to try once I have more money for models. I was thinking about taking SM allies in the form of Blood Ravens taking Ultramarine chapter tactics but the SW allies seems pretty awesome even if it violates my fluff meter but that is alright, the War for Armageddon was long ago, I am sure the Grey Knights and Space Wolves would have to eventually make up.

I just got to try that list I posted with the Librarian instead of the Techmarine. Unfortunately, I am not able to take the Chimera with the Librarian in a 2,000 point game. The list functioned really well. The only drawback was them targeting my henchman and being able to wipe them off the map pretty easily which is I have decided I need to put them into the Chimera. The Librarian provided some interesting things and probably protection against psykers (I was play testing against SM so I could face against my nemesis, the Thunderfire cannon) but the Techmarine + Chimera just make more strategic sense from a more whole defensive stand point on a whole. That is another question I had, can any Librarian provide the same kind of protection from psykers or is it something that is unique to the Rune Priests? I haven't read the SW codex ever so it is something that I don't know about. And I thought that the one thing that the Grey Knights do well is defense against psykers all by themselves without the need of having to bring on outside help?

I definitely like the SR with Terminators in it because it allowed me to basically move in them where I need them to capture a Relic or an objective. So, with the new list, I definitely like it.

Yea the runepreist is a special character that has wargear which makes it so that any psycher casting a spell within 24" of him, after passing their psychic test must then be subject to the runepriest player rolling a 4+ to stop the power from going off. I'll take halving the potential of an eldar, daemon, or nid players psychic powers any day

Well, considering that, I definitely will consider the SW allies. I didn't know that Rune Priests were so good, makes me want to go pick up a SW codex and check it out. I have always liked the SW too.

I guess the next step is to start considering what I would take once I start to want to expand to a higher point so that begs the question of how do you know what to put more of? Or if I was to modify the list, how do you decide what to cut and what to keep? I know at games above 3000 points its easier to take allies which is one thing I am considering but I don't know where to even start beyond trying your SW suggestions.

@Envihon

Well when it comes to making my army I wanted

-quickness
-Dreadknights because next to purifiers that are sadly unusable for quick shunt list my favorite models in codex
-cheap troops that could get the job done such as capping as well as taking on a role to be a anti-MC(grounding test) (I really wouldn't expect them to shoot down an actual flier)>coteaz> henchmen
-SW because next to GK they are my favorite SM chapter
v
-Rune Preist for psychic protection and Jaws
-grey hunters in drop pod to act in place of interceptors

At the end of the day your list that you came up with is very solid so... make sure that if you do branch off to allies to keep your foundation of what you wanted in an army.
mine was quickness
everything is in a transport or has a means of geting where it needs (jump packs/ drop pods)

I see what you mean. I am more of a defensive player so maybe investing in something that allows me to take more of a defensive position which now that I think of it can be achieved in two ways. One way is to take a small force of Space Wolves that includes the Rune Priest, it would certainly help for defending against enemy psykers.

I was also thinking taking a cheap SM HQ with two tactical squads to fill out the required and taking a couple of Thunderfire Cannons, turn my new bane into an asset and that would draw attention off my henchman squad.

Another option, even though I might not want to do it out of principles would be to take Tau, give me some long range support while my GK can go in and do their thing.

Just remember that the Rune Priest will deny the Grey Knights powers from going off as well. They are not Battle Brothers so it will effect them.

I thought would only apply with Desperate Allies. With the way I read it, Allies of Conveyance should let the GK still use their powers without the Rune Priest interfering.

Conveyance basicly count as enemy that you can't shoot or assault. You can't move within 1" share powers put IC in the squad together etc. so sadly the rune priest would also counter the GK's powers. As each new dex comes out though they are changeing the way Psychic powers are countered SW are tge last of the old skool way. They are due to get a new dex next year after Orks so should be all sorted after that.

That is actually really disappointing. I wonder though, would my Inquisitor warlord change anything? I run Coteaz as my warlord right now so technically the Space Wolves would be allying with the Inquisitorial...wait, they still aren't battle brothers with the GK in my force. It just means Coteaz can do as he pleases with him and all his Inquiisitorial forces but anything GK would be blocked by the Rune Priest.