Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

yes you read that right

it is yet again a themed army. unfortunately the new codex makes me take a crisis suit and vehicle upgrade changes increased costs so i lost 2 firewarrior/devilfish sqads from my original design. now i know all the naysayers are going to say i don't have enough troops, scoring units etc...and for tau that is normally the case but in this case the entire army is centered around the tanks.  it is a list i play tested and liked alot. so i decided to buld it and i think it will be unique as well.....anyway

tau

HQ-

-shas'o XV8 crisis suit with:iridium armour, stimulant injector, hard wired black sun filter, hard wired multitracker, frag projector, cyclic ion blaser, shield generator

TROOP

1-6 fire warrior, shas'uit -bonded

Devilfish-disruption pod fletchet discharger, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock, seeker missle X2

2-6 fire warrior, shas'ui -bonded

Devilfish-disruption pod fletchet discharger, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock, seeker missle X2

HEAVY SUPPORT

1-hammerhead-railgun, disruption pod, fletchet discharger, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock, seeker missle X2

2-hammerhead-railgun, disruption pod, fletchet discharger, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock, seeker missle X2

3-hammerhead-railgun, disruption pod, fletchet discharger, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock, seeker missle X2

FAST ATTACK

1-4 pathfinders with pulse carbine, shas'ui-bonded

Devilfish-disruption pod fletchet discharger, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock, seeker missle X1

2-4 pathfinders with pulse carbine, shas'ui-bonded

Devilfish-disruption pod fletchet discharger, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock, seeker missle X1

3-4 pathfinders with pulse carbine, shas'ui-bonded

Devilfish-disruption pod fletchet discharger, SMS, Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Target Lock, seeker missle X1

points-1847

slight edit..all that cuting and pasting...the hammerheads do not have seeker missles.

Why give bonding and Shas'uis to all those small squads? A four man 4+ team will completely die to any sort of firepower, as will a 6. The Seeker Missiles won't do much either for the same reason, as Pathfinders (always huge targets at the best of times) are just saying "Shoot Me!"

The Shas'O suffers from new shiny toy syndrome, way too many goodies on him. Why take Stim Injectors when his IC status and 4 wounds should keep him protected from small arms fire, and any heavy weapon that sneaks through his shield will insta-kill him? The AFP is a horrible waste of his BS and why take a Black Sun Filter when his weapons only shoot 18" and he comes with Acute Senses?

Finally, as with any heavy armoured army, you're going to suffer from parking-lot syndrome. You've minimized it a bit by taking Disruption pods, but it's going to be impossible to find cover for all your units at the start.

Non-Godzilla Tyranids ought to really hate you, though. =)

Posted By spmusubi on 04/06/2006 9:05 AM
Why give bonding and Shas'uis to all those small squads? A four man 4+ team will completely die to any sort of firepower, as will a 6. The Seeker Missiles won't do much either for the same reason, as Pathfinders (always huge targets at the best of times) are just saying "Shoot Me!"

The Shas'O suffers from new shiny toy syndrome, way too many goodies on him. Why take Stim Injectors when his IC status and 4 wounds should keep him protected from small arms fire, and any heavy weapon that sneaks through his shield will insta-kill him? The AFP is a horrible waste of his BS and why take a Black Sun Filter when his weapons only shoot 18" and he comes with Acute Senses?

Finally, as with any heavy armoured army, you're going to suffer from parking-lot syndrome. You've minimized it a bit by taking Disruption pods, but it's going to be impossible to find cover for all your units at the start.

Non-Godzilla Tyranids ought to really hate you, though. =)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

actually most people are going to hate me. from my land speeder experience fast skimmers are generally hard to kill, with tau vehicle upgrades even more so.  and the tau vehicles now do realatively well in close combat when assaulted.

 

a few clarifications-my squads(or should i say crash survivors) never get out of the devilfish unless they are destroyed. pathfinders less so unless all my hammerheads are dead and i need some AT firepower.  even then troops stay in the instant 4+ cover save terrain created by a crashed devilfish.  seekers missle are there for backup AT work and also to add to my weapons loadout incase i get several of those weapon destroyed results to help save me from auto immobilization.

 

the IC is kited out because i had to take him, so i decided to make him a badarse by tau standards. he is also just about the only troop unit on the table that will generally be able to be assaulted so i wanted him to be more survivable from both shooting and assaults. not all heavy weapons have to get through his shields, with a 2+ armour save it makes him less vunerable to battle cannons and basilisks that are high strenght but AP3. the AFP makes lots of sense to me because i alway end up playing with armies that hug cover because they have 5+ armour saves. it also gives me the option of dropping a 4th ordinance template on the table in addition to the submunitions that my hammerheads fire. i took the filter because i had a few left over points, no other reason.

 

parkinglot syndrome is fine, heck with my original list i had 10 units on the table, now i have 8 and a suit. the only things i am really worrying about hiding on turn 1 setup is the hammerheads and the shas'o. especially since 100% of the time ojn turn 1 all hits on me are glancing.  unless you are within 12" and once i start moving it is 100% of the time.

The new rules state that disruption pods cause all hits to be glancing outside of 12", so they can't pen. you on turn one which is real nice.

It seems pretty nice. I kind of agree with spmusubi, parking lot syndrome "maybe". everythings a skimmer and can hop over the other vehicles to unload the troops. On the other hand, themed armies like this arn't my style BECAUSE, it has a weakness. I'm not going to doubt its ability to rip through and deal a lot of damage, but it could potentially fight an army that can tear through it. Mainly another Tau army, or guard/marines that took a few extra lazcannons.

Don't take it too serious, I'm still fairly new to the game but thats what I've observed.

Actually, Disruption Pods count the vehicle as Obscured outside of 12". Obscured targets count Penetrating hits as Glancing on a 4+.

So you have way too many Seeker Missiles for not having any Pathfinders on the table. According to your plan, the Pathfinders are deployed if you've lost some vehicles. But if you've lost vehicles, you've lost Seeker Missiles.

Bonding is a waste on units that will get wiped out from a single round of shooting.

Flechette Dischargers are a waste on most vehicles. Perhaps designate 2 that will be forward units and keep it on those. If you've got units in HtH with your Hammerheads, you have too many problems already.

I agree that the Shas'O is too much. He's not a badarse by Tau standards. Tau don't have badarse. At all.

The army concept is interesting. If you've had success with it, congratulations. It can certainly be improved though.

oh wow, I thought obscured made anything outside 12" glancing, sorry about that...

first battle

first off it fared pretty darn well for a first time game, probably would have done better if i had remembered the fletchette launchers on the last turn when 20 mariens assault one of my devilfish(and failed to hurt it  

i was facing  a lysander led imperial fists force

it turned out to be a draw.

Yamatoshi-all armies in 40K have a weakness no matter what you takeor what force you play

 

dawnsight
So you have way too many Seeker Missiles for not having any Pathfinders on the table. According to your plan, the Pathfinders are deployed if you've lost some vehicles. But if you've lost vehicles, you've lost Seeker Missiles.

actually it worked quite well, extra seeker missles preveted weapon destroyed results from becoming vehicle immobilized results. since i went second by the luck of the dice at the end of turn 6 i dismounted everybody that had something to shoot at and ended up markerlighting 4 of the 5 seekers i had left on the table.

Bonding is a waste on units that will get wiped out from a single round of shooting.

it didn't work that way,  i had one squad of pathfinders that stayed on the table for 3 turns markerlighting before they were finally shot to hell.

Flechette Dischargers are a waste on most vehicles.

absolutely not,  they managed to take out 2 scout units, a jump unit and whiddle down the termi squad attached to lysander, infact aside from the decoy launchers the fletchette dischargers were the biggest pain for my opponant.. no tau vehicle sould be without them.

I agree that the Shas'O is too much. He's not a badarse by Tau standards. Tau don't have badarse. At all.

actually he isn't, every piece of wargear i put on him paid for itself-

lysanders termi squad fired on him when he jumped in-cyclone krak missle save at 2+ made because of the iridium armour, assault cannon rending shot-made at a 4+ because of the shield, most of the stormbolter shot wounds made on the 2+  and the lone one i failed saved on the 4+ feel no pain save.....he took no fire for the rest of the game.

The army concept is interesting. If you've had success with it, congratulations. It can certainly be improved though.

i did and it was a blast, but i can't really improve it anymore with this theme at an 1850 tornament list level which is what i play at. with all my armies.

 

 

I know all armies have a weakness, if they didn't there would be no competition. They would win period.

What I'm saying is, taking the right stuff could tear through the tanks. A general weakness like your saying is for example, tau will be eaten alive in melee. What I'm saying is that though your force is powerful, certain circumstances can majorly cripple it. For example, an army with many lascannons/heavy tank-killing weaponry. Thats what I mean by a weakness. Its a personal preference is all, I like to varietize as opposed to sticking with a theme.

Congrats on your win with the Army of Fish frames!  That said, I had a few more comments on the list.

mughi3 said
actually it worked quite well, extra seeker missles preveted weapon destroyed results from becoming vehicle immobilized results. since i went second by the luck of the dice at the end of turn 6 i dismounted everybody that had something to shoot at and ended up markerlighting 4 of the 5 seekers i had left on the table.

You're taking Seekers to avoid dying from the THIRD weapon destroyed result you get?  You've got seven missiles that can only be guided by 3 minimum sized Pathfinder teams.  I really don't think that's a great use of the weapons, personally.

mughi3 said
Bonding is a waste on units that will get wiped out from a single round of shooting.

it didn't work that way,  i had one squad of pathfinders that stayed on the table for 3 turns markerlighting before they were finally shot to hell

With a 4 man Pathfinder team, the only way that bonding comes into play is if there's one man remaining.  Even then, he's still vulnerable to Last Man Standing checks every turn.  Your Pathfinders lived only because a Lysander wing has no spare anti-troop firepower, as I'm assuming the mass Assault Cannons were all focused on your Hammerheads.

mughi3 said

Flechette Dischargers are a waste on most vehicles.

absolutely not,  they managed to take out 2 scout units, a jump unit and whiddle down the termi squad attached to lysander, infact aside from the decoy launchers the fletchette dischargers were the biggest pain for my opponant.. no tau vehicle sould be without them.

You must be joking.  Scouts I can see getting hurt (why would your opponent charge a Fish with one Power Fist though?), but Terminators?  Power armoured Marines?  How???

For army design, my suggestion would be to remove the Shas'uis, bonding, Seekers, and Target Locks on the Devilfish.  Dropping a few Flechette Launchers (probably on the Hammerheads) gives you just about enough points to pick up another 6 man mounted Fire Warrior team and another skimmer frame! 

You're taking Seekers to avoid dying from the THIRD weapon destroyed result you get?  You've got seven missiles that can only be guided by 3 minimum sized Pathfinder teams.  I really don't think that's a great use of the weapons, personally.

10 points to save 140...i consider this a good trade

as I'm assuming the mass Assault Cannons were all focused on your Hammerheads.

they were, the pathfinders died to the assault squad and bike unit.

 

You must be joking.  Scouts I can see getting hurt (why would your opponent charge a Fish with one Power Fist though?), but Terminators?  Power armoured Marines?  How???

he gave everybody crack genades, so he did at least have a chance against my fish in CC...if he survived the assault.

it is called luck of the dice. 3+ saves are nice and 2+ even more so, but even i as a deathwing player fail those saves at times.

 

For army design, my suggestion would be to remove the Shas'uis, bonding, Seekers, and Target Locks on the Devilfish.  Dropping a few Flechette Launchers (probably on the Hammerheads) gives you just about enough points to pick up another 6 man mounted Fire Warrior team and another skimmer frame! 

well my original list prior to the new dex had 7 fish and 3 hammerheads, but unfortunately for my theme they made me take the crisis suit...and some of the vehicle upgrades became neccisary so it took down my number of units. from my experience target locks and fletchettes are ar to useful to loose. and sice my scoring troop units are small i keep them bonded to make them stay on the table as much as possible. that being said, your likely not to everr see another army like mine on the table but i like it.

 

a tyranid player that was there that night actually refused to play my tau...so did thhe sisters of battle. the sisters went up against my ravenwing........it went baldy for him that way as well. at turn 5 all  he had left on the table was his exorcist.

Posted By mughi3 on 04/10/2006 10:13 PM

You're taking Seekers to avoid dying from the THIRD weapon destroyed result you get? You've got seven missiles that can only be guided by 3 minimum sized Pathfinder teams. I really don't think that's a great use of the weapons, personally.

10 points to save 140...i consider this a good trade

Over an additional Devilfish frame? I would think that a glancing 6 would show up long before THREE glancing 4s.

as I'm assuming the mass Assault Cannons were all focused on your Hammerheads.

they were, the pathfinders died to the assault squad and bike unit.

Interesting sounding Lysander wing. Where's all the Terminators? Why the Assault Marines? Scout Bikers I can see.

You must be joking. Scouts I can see getting hurt (why would your opponent charge a Fish with one Power Fist though?), but Terminators? Power armoured Marines? How???

he gave everybody crack genades, so he did at least have a chance against my fish in CC...if he survived the assault.

it is called luck of the dice. 3+ saves are nice and 2+ even more so, but even i as a deathwing player fail those saves at times.

Krak Grenades? He was assaulting your Devilfish with the worst weapon in the game, running a 1 in 216 (slightly better) chance of a kill? Man, he was just throwing free VPs your way.

For army design, my suggestion would be to remove the Shas'uis, bonding, Seekers, and Target Locks on the Devilfish. Dropping a few Flechette Launchers (probably on the Hammerheads) gives you just about enough points to pick up another 6 man mounted Fire Warrior team and another skimmer frame!

well my original list prior to the new dex had 7 fish and 3 hammerheads, but unfortunately for my theme they made me take the crisis suit...and some of the vehicle upgrades became neccisary so it took down my number of units. from my experience target locks and fletchettes are ar to useful to loose. and sice my scoring troop units are small i keep them bonded to make them stay on the table as much as possible. that being said, your likely not to everr see another army like mine on the table but i like it.

And that's all that matters. Good to see a different style of Tau army show up on the field. Quick question, have you ever played against a Necron Phalanx or Godzilla Tyranid list? I ask because it doesn't appear that you have the firepower to deal with either one, and it may be a potential weakness in the list. Best of luck to you in your future games!

EDIT: Reading over it again, it seems that I'm awfully critical of your list, which I really shouldn't be.  My apologies.  I also just realized that your list will be absolutely devastating against the often-feared Drop Pod list.  Fear of the Darkness does nothing, the Hammerheads can be screened against meltaguns by Devilfish, SMS ignores the LOS-blocking pods and the list can easily ditch the foot-slogging troops once the pods land.  Interesting.

Over an additional Devilfish frame? I would think that a glancing 6 would show up long before THREE glancing 4s.

actually i only got 1 glancing 6 the entire game, unfortunately it was on one of my hammerheads  

he actually did roll 3 glancing 4's in a row on 1 fish as well

 

Interesting sounding Lysander wing. Where's all the Terminators? Why the Assault Marines? Scout Bikers I can see.

the termies were all in lysanders command squad.

his army had 2 scout squads, 2 tac squads, 2 dreads, 1 dev squad, 2 speeders, 1 small bike squad, 1 jump squad, and lyusander with retinue.

Krak Grenades? He was assaulting your Devilfish with the worst weapon in the game, running a 1 in 216 (slightly better) chance of a kill? Man, he was just throwing free VPs your way.

well he did his best with the plasma/las/melta shooting the krak at least gave him a chance for his squads to do something in CC.  lysanders unit even with all those powerfists failed to hurt the fish it assaulted as well. if i hadn't had the fletchettes on there it wouldn't have been a problem for him to make the attacks.

have you ever played against a Necron Phalanx or Godzilla Tyranid list? I ask because it doesn't appear that you have the firepower to deal with either one, and it may be a potential weakness in the list. Best of luck to you in your future games!

i have friend who does the necron phalanx, so eventually we will see, intially the hammerheads are going after the monolith, once thats gone the only tactic is really to smart missle and ordinance template them to death and hope enough of them stay down to do some good.

on the necron issue, the guy who refused to play me had a semi-zilla list with like 4 carnifex's a bunch of rippers, some warriors and raveners. the little stuff i am not realy worried about, the carnifex's on the other hand realy comes down to rather or not he makes those regeneration saves.

either way it will be fun to try....one of my friends who plays  korn has already tapped me for a game next weekend.

EDIT: Reading over it again, it seems that I'm awfully critical of your list, which I really shouldn't be.  My apologies.  I also just realized that your list will be absolutely devastating against the often-feared Drop Pod list.  Fear of the Darkness does nothing, the Hammerheads can be screened against meltaguns by Devilfish, SMS ignores the LOS-blocking pods and the list can easily ditch the foot-slogging troops once the pods land.  Interesting.

thats fine, it makes me thing of ways to utalize the list. hmm your right podding armies are going to hate me  

i actually used a fish to screen my shas'o from being assaulted by lysander and retinue and it worked well.

It doesn't sound like the list was as great as the luck that went your way. Flechette Dischargers taking out Scouts? Only 1 Glancing 6 in the game? All that 3+ armor and he died?

The opposing list is also interesting as well as some of his tactical choices.

And one thing. I'm sure it was just a language thing, but units with Markerlights can't get out of a vehicle and use them as they are considered Heavy Weapons. Also, you mentioned bonding being useful on a 3 man Pathfinder squad. However, bonding wouldn't help until they were down to 1 man, and that one Pathfinder broke. Then he would get to rally, but couldn't fire his Markerlight as he would count as moving.

Well, lists are proven with time. Let us know how some more games go.

Thanx