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Hey all, I'm a fairly experienced Eldar player and, having done a few tournaments with a fairly filthy mech list, I'm looking to do something a bit more fluffy for my next army. I love the pre-heresy stuff so I'm going to do a pre-heresy Emperor's Children army using forge world models and the new space marine codex. As you can appreciate the models are all very expensive so I want to have as much of the list planned out in advance as possible before I splash the cash. A lot of the list is based on which models I like/the fluff (e.g. my 'captain' will be Fulgrim), but I'm looking to make a reasonably solid list so I can use it in game scenarios without getting totally massacred. I'm quite new to space marines so any and all advice is welcome. I'm looking to do a painting and modelling blog as I do the army so hopefully that'll appear on dakka at some point too. Thanks!

HQ

Captain (Power weapon, melta bombs) - 110 points

Troops

5 Tactical Marines (Rhino, plasma gun, sergeant with melta bombs) - 125 points

5 Tactical Marines (Rhino, plasma gun) - 120 points

5 Scouts (Sniper rifles) - 60 points

Elites

Dreadnought (Assault cannon, power fist, heavy flamer) - 130 points

5 Assault Terminators (Thunder hammers and storm shields) - 225 points

Fast Attack

5 Bikes (2 grav guns, sergeant with combi-grav and melta bombs) - 150 points

2 Land Speeders (Heavy bolter and typhoon missile launcher each) - 150 points

Heavy Support

5 Devastators (4 missile launchers) - 130 points

Stormraven - 200 points

Thunderfire cannon - 100 points

Couple of points, I know you are trying to stay fluffy, but you probably won't be competitive at all with only 15 guys on the table that can score in every scenario.

I love dreadnoughts, but they are just not competitive either.

I'd recommend swapping the dread for more troops in a rhino.

Nothing in this list even hints at emps children, I expected grav weapons (sonic weapons) everywhere at least

 Formosa wrote:
Nothing in this list even hints at emps children, I expected grav weapons (sonic weapons) everywhere at least

The Emperor's Children were not using Sonic Weapons during the Heresy. Only at the very end was it experimented with and even then it was near useless. Once the Children fell to slannesh (primarily) did sonic weapons become a big deal.

The strategy that pre-Heresy Emperor's Children relied upon in the fluff was the "Open Blade/ Hidden Blade" technique: The Open Blade is the first half of your army being made of massed standing firepower, with as many guns you can afford to put in a squad with maybe a Assault Cannon Razorback or a AsC/ML Dread behind each Tac Squad to assist in gunning targets down. The Hidden Blade consists of the rest of your army either Deep Striking (no Jump Packs though, Emp's Kids preferred Bikes over Assault Marines)or Outflanking and putting boots to your enemies deployment zone. Now, there really isn't a Chapter Tactic in the Codex to reflect this type of strategy, although Imperial Fists would be great for the Open Blade portion, giving your Tac Squads some much needed re-rolls and giving your Devs Tank Hunters. However, if you don't mind using Forgeworld approved Chapter tactics, the Star Phantoms may be something to look into. You'd get to reroll ones on reserve rolls for deep-strikers and can launch army-wide twin-link on all weapons for one turn. Now, a few questions: What is your plan for the Stormraven? What is it transporting? Are you really attached to that squad of Scouts? I ask because if you sack the SR and the Scouts you'll have enough points for a reasonably kitted out Tac Squad with some points over to get your Fulgrim a Relic Blade (which is two-handed like Fulgrim's Laer Blade) and maybe some Artificer Armour. Maybe let a couple Termies keep their Lightning Claws if you need a few more points.

Fluffwise the Emperor's Children didn't have TH/SS terminators, grav guns, stormravens or thunderfires. They also used a lot more tac marines (as did all the legions) in their armies as a solid core. So I'd be going minimum two 10 man tac squads in rhinos and maybe even another on foot. Now even though it's not fluffy, I'd keep the stormraven as a flyer transport, potentially an equivalent did exist. As for the Fulgrim count-as, a captain w only a power sword is way to under powers as a representation, that would be better to represent Saul Tarvitz... Imo either run a tooled up chapter master w artificer armour and the Buring Blade minimum.
There's my two cents, good luck w the project

 Brother Payne wrote:
Fluffwise the Emperor's Children didn't have TH/SS terminators, grav guns, stormravens or thunderfires. They also used a lot more tac marines (as did all the legions) in their armies as a solid core. So I'd be going minimum two 10 man tac squads in rhinos and maybe even another on foot. Now even though it's not fluffy, I'd keep the stormraven as a flyer transport, potentially an equivalent did exist. As for the Fulgrim count-as, a captain w only a power sword is way to under powers as a representation, that would be better to represent Saul Tarvitz... Imo either run a tooled up chapter master w artificer armour and the Buring Blade minimum.
There's my two cents, good luck w the project

Fluffwise, only the Salamanders had TH/SS Termies, but sadly Power Lances aren't available to Loyalist Space Marines in 40k. I agree with the two 10-man Tac Squads, maybe working a Heavy Bolter in with the Plasma Gun. If you really want to do Fulgrim proud, upgrade him to a Chapter Master, give him the Armour Indomitus and a Relic Blade(for a closer to WYSIWYG depiction of the Phoenician) OR The Shield Eternal w/ Artificer Armour and the Burning Blade (for the nigh-unkillable monster he deserves to be).

 SkinCarver wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:
Fluffwise the Emperor's Children didn't have TH/SS terminators, grav guns, stormravens or thunderfires. They also used a lot more tac marines (as did all the legions) in their armies as a solid core. So I'd be going minimum two 10 man tac squads in rhinos and maybe even another on foot. Now even though it's not fluffy, I'd keep the stormraven as a flyer transport, potentially an equivalent did exist. As for the Fulgrim count-as, a captain w only a power sword is way to under powers as a representation, that would be better to represent Saul Tarvitz... Imo either run a tooled up chapter master w artificer armour and the Buring Blade minimum.
There's my two cents, good luck w the project

Fluffwise, only the Salamanders had TH/SS Termies, but sadly Power Lances aren't available to Loyalist Space Marines in 40k. I agree with the two 10-man Tac Squads, maybe working a Heavy Bolter in with the Plasma Gun. If you really want to do Fulgrim proud, upgrade him to a Chapter Master, give him the Armour Indomitus and a Relic Blade(for a closer to WYSIWYG depiction of the Phoenician) OR The Shield Eternal w/ Artificer Armour and the Burning Blade (for the nigh-unkillable monster he deserves to be).

For termis I'd run them as tac termis. The FW models support this, just count the combi-bolters as storm bolters. As for fulgrim I would say the Burning Blade is better WYSIWYG, better on the table and better fluffwise (Fireblade literally burst into flames when he fought Ferrus Mannus in the Iron Forge)

 Brother Payne wrote:

As for fulgrim I would say the Burning Blade is better WYSIWYG, better on the table and better fluffwise (Fireblade literally burst into flames when he fought Ferrus Mannus in the Iron Forge)

I would agree with the Burning Blade being better on the table and it's abilities more accurate to Fulgrim's fluff, but depending on your area's meta, some tourney organizers are a little more dickish on how models wielding two-handed weapons are, well, modeled. I only suggest the Relic Blade as a verbatim two-handed sword that's marginally better than a stock Power Sword but cheaper than an actual Chapter Relic.

 SkinCarver wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:

As for fulgrim I would say the Burning Blade is better WYSIWYG, better on the table and better fluffwise (Fireblade literally burst into flames when he fought Ferrus Mannus in the Iron Forge)

I would agree with the Burning Blade being better on the table and it's abilities more accurate to Fulgrim's fluff, but depending on your area's meta, some tourney organizers are a little more dickish on how models wielding two-handed weapons are, well, modeled. I only suggest the Relic Blade as a verbatim two-handed sword that's marginally better than a stock Power Sword but cheaper than an actual Chapter Relic.

I've never seen a TO do that, you're right that is dickish. My next choice would be teeth of terra (naturally)

Why not use the 30k books? The rules and fluff are fantastic. If you're looking for a fun fluffy army thats how I'd do it. In our group one guy has a 30k World Eaters list, it plays well and is balanced with whats out there at the moment.

 Brother Payne wrote:

I've never seen a TO do that, you're right that is dickish. My next choice would be teeth of terra (naturally)

This was at a tourney in Pensacola, Florida. The model in question was a Chapter Master holding a Thunder Hammer with two hands with the Shield Eternal strapped to his back. The TO was adamant that the model can't use the shield if two-handing a weapon, regardless of whether or not the weapon was listed as two-handed. I'm sure this isn't the case every where, but I try to have my models as "correct" as possible now lest I waste a day driving out of my hometown to go play a game with strangers.

Teeth of Terra is also a good idea. It's basically a Relic Blade with Rampage and Strikedown for ten points more, plus it loses two handed for Specialist Weapon. I rarely see it used in people's lists, so I didn't even think to mention it.

 SkinCarver wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:

I've never seen a TO do that, you're right that is dickish. My next choice would be teeth of terra (naturally)

This was at a tourney in Pensacola, Florida. The model in question was a Chapter Master holding a Thunder Hammer with two hands with the Shield Eternal strapped to his back. The TO was adamant that the model can't use the shield if two-handing a weapon, regardless of whether or not the weapon was listed as two-handed. I'm sure this isn't the case every where, but I try to have my models as "correct" as possible now lest I waste a day driving out of my hometown to go play a game with strangers.

Teeth of Terra is also a good idea. It's basically a Relic Blade with Rampage and Strikedown for ten points more, plus it loses two handed for Specialist Weapon. I rarely see it used in people's lists, so I didn't even think to mention it.

That guy sucks