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Im thinking of running this in a tounrament in a meta i dont know much about. Also i am writting this off the top of my head so i may be a little off on the exact points.

Khan on bike 145?

command squad on bikes 2 meltas 3 grave 200

venerable Dread TL heavy flamer, heavy flamer 140

drop pod 35

2 10 man tactical squads with plasma gun combi plas and heavy bolter 175 each

2 rhinos with dozer blades 40 each

2 10 man devistator squads with 2 heavy bolters 2 flakk missles 210 each

vindicator with dozer blade 130 (not siege shield)

What I was thinking was that the deves stayed in the back field doing their thing maybe combat squaded. The tacticals and the vin took the fight to about mid field holding or clearing objectives. Dread drop poding on some unit and buring it to death turn one and comand bike squad with khan possible out flanking and hitting some back field bad guys. Im thinking its a pretty sound list and a decent idea on the stratagy but i want to know what you guys think.

So its white scars with a mix of weapons in the command squad and then the woeful tactical marines when bikers are available.

Two horrid devastator squads (flakk missiles are nowhere near worth the points, heavy bolters are just a poor option).

And a solo Vindicator? You want to take this to a tournament?

You need a clear idea what you want the list to do as a whole. If it is gunline then you want IF tactics, white scars are for bikes. Then you take the relevant CTs to the over all idea and then take units that support that goal. What type of list do you want?

First off, Khan is 150 on the bike.

For White Scars, you need bikes. Plenty of them. Otherwise, what's the point of going Scars in the first place? You want to run tactical-and-bolter-heavy, that's what the Imperial Fists are for.

Devastators are Heavy Support. They should be popping tanks, and you're not going to do much with heavy bolters. Drop them to 5-mans, take 3 lascannons and a missile launcher in one, maybe run 3 missile and las in a second 5-man. Plenty of tankpopping power, plus if you're going up against flyers, maybe spend the extra points on a couple of flakk upgrades, but no more.

If you're going to take a command squad (which I assume you're putting with Khan), then why are you wasting points on all these weapons and not putting an apothecary in there? 185 points gives you a 5-man command squad on bikes with an apothecary (thereby making your unit slightly more survivable thanks to FNP) and a company standard. Leave your meltas and gravs for the bikes that you can now take as troops.

Now I don't know what you have in terms of actual models, but if you don't have enough bikes to run a pair of 6-mans with maybe an attack bike or two, you might want to seriously rethink your choice of chapter.

If you're going to take a command squad (which I assume you're putting with Khan), then why are you wasting points on all these weapons and not putting an apothecary in there? 185 points gives you a 5-man command squad on bikes with an apothecary (thereby making your unit slightly more survivable thanks to FNP) and a company standard. Leave your meltas and gravs for the bikes that you can now take as troops.

I agree with most things this guy has said but he's miles off with this advice. Also Flakk missiles are never worth taking. Command squads exist purely to spam gravguns. Some like the apothecary with 4 guns personally I prefer the Dave output of 5 gravguns. But either way grav spam is the reason you take the command squad.

Fling it now hit the nail right on the head. Command squads are for resilient special weapon spamming platforms.

The reason for white scares is for hit and run and scout with khan. Sorry for getting khans points wrong but i wrote that list off the top of my head. I more flexability with scouting rhinos with tac squads than i do with bikes. The dev squadsare meant to be combat squaded and half was meant to help with infentry and the other vehicles. Also i see no reason why not to use flakk missles. At only 40 points more per squad of four missles give a better return than anyone one of the vehicles and will do far better at dealing with other unit types.

 FlingitNow wrote:

If you're going to take a command squad (which I assume you're putting with Khan), then why are you wasting points on all these weapons and not putting an apothecary in there? 185 points gives you a 5-man command squad on bikes with an apothecary (thereby making your unit slightly more survivable thanks to FNP) and a company standard. Leave your meltas and gravs for the bikes that you can now take as troops.

I agree with most things this guy has said but he's miles off with this advice. Also Flakk missiles are never worth taking. Command squads exist purely to spam gravguns. Some like the apothecary with 4 guns personally I prefer the Dave output of 5 gravguns. But either way grav spam is the reason you take the command squad.

Spamming gravguns is great if you're going to be dealing with enemies that have low armor saves- but if you find yourself staring down a horde or orks or nids,all of a sudden needing fives and sixes to do any sort of damage doesn't seem quite as appealing. And if your boss and his com squad find themselves being rained down on with high AP weaponry or locked in CC, you're going to be wanting that FNP roll.

Flakk's only useful for its Skyfire properties. If you're not going to be dealing with flyers, then save yourself the points, because at that point going Flakk is worthless.

And as for the OP- want a good reason to take bikes over tacs in a WS list? Hammer of Wrath. Toughness 5 bikes. 4+/3+ Jink saves. Relentless. Won't find that in a tac squad.

You forgot to mention how mobile bikes are, which is one of their strongest assets. But yeah, I agree with what you've said.

Spamming gravguns is great if you're going to be dealing with enemies that have low armor saves- but if you find yourself staring down a horde or orks or nids,all of a sudden needing fives and sixes to do any sort of damage doesn't seem quite as appealing. And if your boss and his com squad find themselves being rained down on with high AP weaponry or locked in CC, you're going to be wanting that FNP roll.

I didn't say that taking FnP was bad its personal preference. Butwhat you've stated is not reason to not take grav on command squads. Its a reason to not spamgrav across your entire army. Each unit shouldn't be trying to be good against every type of enemy. Diversifying a unit weakens it because it becomes poor against everything. Every unit should have a function whereas the whole should be able to deal with everything. The only reason to take a command squad in a competitive environment is to span grav weapons on bikes.

Flakk's only useful for its Skyfire properties. If you're not going to be dealing with flyers, then save yourself the points, because at that point going Flakk is worthless.

Even against flyers flakk devastators are a poor choice. They are too inefficient. Flakk is just too many points to be worth the effort. Get your AA from Fortifications or Flyers. Heck even the throw away 75 points for a stalker isn't too bad. But leave devastators at home.