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Do you think the EOM would benefit if it's citizens had (at least limited) knowledge of chaos?

The Imperium is "the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable". It is a living hell for most citizens.

People know about the Daemons and the "Angels" that fight them only through legends and the tales of the priests. Knowing that they are real and that they listen to the people will see the creation of countless cults and, eventually, a Daemonic invasion when a psyker powerful enough tries to do something big.

So it would be good for the Daemons, but bad for everyone else.

That does seem pretty likely...

And remember kids, knowing is half the battle

No. Absolutely not.

As much as chaos has been reduced from nightmares to simply bad guys, it's still far too dangerous for public consumption. The Imperium has (as best they can) a thought police because thoughts literally are dangerous, and really can lead you down the path to damnation.

Knowledge of Chaos should be given only to the strongest individuals- the Primarchs for example, would have been ideal.

It depends on how you would explain to people of Imperium what is Chaos and what does it mean.


If you tell them its the most horrible thing in the universe etc., then it might help.


Describe what perks Chaos Gods offer for their service, it would actually attract people into serving the Chaos.

However, I believe its best to keep it a secret. Its hard to worship something you don't know it exists.

No. Ignorance is strenght.
The less the IoM's citizens know about Chaos, the less likely the change they will be tempted by it.

I recall the opening story of Reals of Chaos (but I forget which book exactly). It starts with an Inquisitor sitting in the 'office' of a marine chapter master which he has just purged for chaos corruption (along with several other officers). He's sitting there, wondering how such a person could become corrupt, idly tracing the pattern etched into the desk of the former master. In the warp, something is watching and just waiting for him to finish tracing... When he does, he has unwittingly written out the demons name a split second later, he is no more, replaced with a demon.

Imagine living in a world where the wrong utterance, the wrong gesture could literally damn you to hell? Imagine if swearing actually endangered your soul- how draconian would you be with it? How far would you go to protect your kids from it?

what percentage do you think the imperium knows of the space marines, chaos etc.

would you say roughly 40 percent of the imperium knows about space marines, chaos etc.

Arguably even less. The vast majority of imperial citizens don't really know what chaos is. They vaguely know that it's a bad thing but they really don't know. SM at best are mythical heroes told in tales much like greek heroes or the sorts. All around, the imperial citizen likely knows very little.

Broly wrote:
It depends on how you would explain to people of Imperium what is Chaos and what does it mean.


If you tell them its the most horrible thing in the universe etc., then it might help.


Describe what perks Chaos Gods offer for their service, it would actually attract people into serving the Chaos.

However, I believe its best to keep it a secret. Its hard to worship something you don't know it exists.

Think about the conditions the average citizen lives on. The vast majority of the population lives on Hive Worlds and Forgeworlds.

In a Hive World, you have:
1) An extremely low percent of rich people. They live in the highest part of the Hive. Let´s say they are a 0,1% of the population.
2) If we go deeper, we go worse. Here we have the roughly 10% of people who have a job. They work all day and live a gray existence. Water is severely rationed, and food is made of artificial protein, if they are lucky. They die young, wasted, a minor sickness meaning the end, caused by breathing air poisoned by chemicals or a few years of inhuman work conditions. For extra grimdark points, most of the stuff made by the factories is immediately dumped, since nobody remember how it works or what was supposed to do.
3) Let´s go down. Here we have the majority of the population. Lacking a job, they survive on a day to day basis. Finding a rat or a big mutant cockroach to eat is being lucky. Crime is everywhere, violence abounds, and the only real law is the law of the strongest. Here you have the average citizen.
4) However, all this persons live in the higher part of the Hives. The Hives are BIG, they cover most of the planet and they are kilometers high. Most of them is no longer used by society. It is called the Underhive. Conditions are far worse here. People born in this place never see the light of the sun, never have a chance to breath clean air. Cannibalism is common, and people here live in a constant state of warfare, forgotten by a society who has abandoned them. All of them die young after a hellish existence.
5) Then you have the Wastelands. This includes the space between the Hives, and the lowest levels of the Hives. Nothing human can live here without protection. It is mutant territory. Monstrosities and abominations so foul a Daemon or a Tyranid will be unnoticed are common.

In a Forgeworld, it is the same, but the rate of unemployed people is really low. You have a bigger chance of becoming a lobotomized servitor, and you are 100% sure you are eating recycled people. Nothing is wasted here, everything is reused. Oh, and if you get a job you are probably hardwired to it. A clerk does not need legs to work, does he? This way you need less space.

And in every single place, including the wastelands, the priests come, preaching the love of the Emperor. Protected by their own power and the backing of the Arbites, they explain that Daemons must not be heeded, that Daemons are bad, that the Emperor protects, and all that stuff.

LightKing wrote:
what percentage do you think the imperium knows of the space marines, chaos etc.

would you say roughly 40 percent of the imperium knows about space marines, chaos etc.

Going with the background I know, I will say 0,1%. The richest, the only ones who can afford anything resembling education.

The majority of the population does not really know what is going on outside their block (as in "block number 27637834-B, floor 6537, hive 879; estimated population two million"). They have heard tales about an "Imperium", and the Priests say things about "Daemons" and "Angels" (the Angels of Death, who descend from the Primarchs, the blessed sons of God), but that´s all. Movement is severely restricted, there are no schools, no books, and everything they are told is propaganda or a legend.

Then we have the people that belong to the Imperium yet do not even know the Imperium exists. There are some examples in the setting.
1: Let´s say a small group of people (just eight thousands) decide to abandon society. They get weapons and go to the Underhive, getting lost from the official society. They manage to survive and create their own society. Fast forward 2000 years without books and schools and they have develop a culture completely different from the imperial.
2: Or we have a world which only point of contact with the Imperium is a single station with a single astropath. But the Astronomicon is getting weaker year by year, and more and more worlds are missing. So they lost contact. Fast forward 2000 years and nobody remember the Imperium, save for a small group of people who live in a little town build upon the ruins of the station.
3: Or my favorite: people who live on a Battleship, a pilgrim ship or a bulk refinery. Indentured into service, they are decimated in a furious battle or after an accident, and they run to the insides of the ship. Kilometers long and 15000 years old, the Battleships have lots of empty space that is no longer used by the Imperium. In these places, completely forgotten by the crew, entire societies can develop. Fast forward 2000 years and they no longer remember they are inside a ship. Since the Gellar field does not completely protect them, these people usually turn into mutants. The Ghilliam and, if things go really wrong, the Hullghast are created this way.

We as players have a tendency to assume that people living in the setting know a lot about it. They don´t. The setting is a dark age, flooded with lies, propaganda, legends and desperation. They know nothing.

Ignorance is bliss.

Citizens knowing about Chaos would make things even worse. Imagine the countless planet-wide rebellions.

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
Ignorance is bliss.

Citizens knowing about Chaos would make things even worse. Imagine the countless planet-wide rebellions.

Oh yeah, because they don't have countless planet-wide rebellions even now .

For one, I think it would be better for an average citizen to know about Chaos. If everybody knew the true nature of Chaos then nobody would even dare to tackle with it as nobody would want to end up as a Chaos Spawn. But thing is, that the IoM would need a strong and effective education system to make this happen - something that is impossible to achieve on the scale the Imperium operates.

 AtoMaki wrote:
Oh yeah, because they don't have countless planet-wide rebellions even now

Hey! We certainly don't need more.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
Ignorance is bliss.

Citizens knowing about Chaos would make things even worse. Imagine the countless planet-wide rebellions.

Oh yeah, because they don't have countless planet-wide rebellions even now .

For one, I think it would be better for an average citizen to know about Chaos. If everybody knew the true nature of Chaos then nobody would even dare to tackle with it as nobody would want to end up as a Chaos Spawn. But thing is, that the IoM would need a strong and effective education system to make this happen - something that is impossible to achieve on the scale the Imperium operates.

People will do anything for power, and a mortal lifetime of power, wealth and debauchery is worth a Faustian bargain.

No, Chaos provides a cheap and easy way through life. People wouldn't be strong enough to resist it.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
Ignorance is bliss.

Citizens knowing about Chaos would make things even worse. Imagine the countless planet-wide rebellions.

Oh yeah, because they don't have countless planet-wide rebellions even now .

For one, I think it would be better for an average citizen to know about Chaos. If everybody knew the true nature of Chaos then nobody would even dare to tackle with it as nobody would want to end up as a Chaos Spawn. But thing is, that the IoM would need a strong and effective education system to make this happen - something that is impossible to achieve on the scale the Imperium operates.

That's the thing though. By denying even the knowledge of an option in life via service to the Chaos Gods it prevents any possibility of an internal uprising based on Chaos Gods since they don't even know about them to begin with. It's normally only due to external infiltration/corruption by Chaos Marines or higher ups that KNOW about Chaos that the populace gets swayed into their fold.

Also when it comes to those who have literally nothing to lose like mutants and the lower rung of society who want some form of control or power even knowledge of what Chaos can do to you won't dissuade them from attempting to change their piteous status in life. Better to try and have a chance at glory than not at all.