Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all! Pretty new to the game and working on some initial lists. I like the GpzGrens theme, but finding it really difficult to fit in enough AT given how expensive all those half-tracks are. I'm thinking the panzergrens or grenadiers would be a better choice.

Anyway, here is the list. No armored vehicles as they are just so damn expensive to fit in along. Anyway, with the kampfgruppe I end up with 8 platoons (9 if the recce counts as two separate platoons).

Two short Gpzgren platoons for defense (along with the big AT guns). One kampfgruppe super platoon for offense.

The problem being here that most of the big AT is static and the FP9 halftracks aren't crazy good. I just don't know how to pack enough AT in and be able to cover all my bases.

I could swap out the Heavy AT guns for some more Pak40s. Don't have any fausts as the attacking platoon will be pretty mobile and won't be able to move them. The defending platoons could use them, but I don't really hvae the points unless I swap the 88s for Pak40s.

Any suggestions? I'm having a tough time coming up with something reliable using all these half tracks.



Gepanzerte Panzergrenadierkompanie HQ
x2 Panzerknacker SMG teams
Panzerschreck team


Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon (3 Squads)
Cmd Panzerknacker SMG team w/ Sd Kfz 251/10 (3.7cm)


Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier Platoon (3 Squads)
Cmd Panzerknacker SMG team w/ Sd Kfz 251/10 (3.7cm)


Gepanzerte Heavy Platoon
x1 HMG Section
Mortar Section
Gun Section


Gepanzerte Cannon Platoon (3 Sections)


Panzergrenadier Anti-tank Gun Platoon
x3 7.5cm PaK40 gun


Heavy Anti-tank Gun Platoon
x2 8.8cm PaK43/41 gun


Heavy Panzerspäh Platoon
x2 Panzerspäh Patrols


Rocket Launcher Battery
x3 15cm NW41


Anti-aircraft Gun Platoon
x3 Sd Kfz 7/2 (3.7cm) (armoured)

Company Points: 1850

Oh, the nostalgia! I started FoW with the Grey Wolf Gepanzerte Panzergrenadierkompanie. My list was something like HQ+Shrecks (one faust somewhere here), 2x full Pg platoons w/ fausts, 5 Panzer IVs, and 5 Stugs at 1.5k...it did alright as far as noob games went...

As far as your HQ and normal GPg go I like 'em. I've found that Gepanzerte force do best when played in a crazy-aggressive manner and your platoons are certainly capable of doing that. One thing I'm not so sure about is the Heavy Platoon. You already have a ton of cannon half-tracks, and though the combat attachment aspect is nice, 8 in the entire army may be just too many. I'd drop the cannon platoon down to 4 and then keep the attachments from the Heavy Platoon--you can always loan them to the gun platoon if you *really* need six cannons in one unit.

Another thing is that I think the HMGs are a little extraneous. You already have 7 half-tracks with the normal vehicle MGs on them, in addition to MG team infantry. Sure, the HMGs have longer range, but when you're on the attack you'll probably be right in the enemy's face and when you're on the defensive the enemy infantry they're meant to kill have to advance to within 16" of you anyways. Also if you're the defender then the enemy is likely playing a tank company which the HMG will be ineffective against anyways.

I'd also drop the Mortar Section in the Heavy Platoon as well as the Nebelwherfers and pick up a Gepanzerte mortar platoon (preferably full-sized) for your artillery--it's a bigger battery, has some scary direct-fire applications, and is just as mobile as the rest of your force rather than the static rocket launchers.

Towing guns has never worked very well for me, and I would focus on the big, immobile ones. An AT16 gun with 40" range is going to be able to do a lot, even if it does have to stay in one place. I have to ask: is there any particular reason you took Pak 43/41 guns and not Pak 43? The Pak 43 is turntable for barely any more points than the 43/41 version. Other than that they look the same to me. After any list teaks you might do I also highly recommend throwing in some ROF 3 Flak 88's--the Luftwaffe version is pretty cheap and can help cover blind spots the Paks might have--and also provide an extra shot or two against aircraft in a pinch.

Admittedly I'm not well-versed in the strengths of the different recon platoons, but your recce cars seem fine to me. As does your AA platoon. You might also consider finding something to drop and adding in a third GPg platoon--though that might be very, very hard (especially if you try make all the changes I recommended, too). It's a shame it's so hard to work tanks into the army, but there are merits to light armour saturation.

I dont like this list.

You have masses of vehicles but no tanks and rely on AT guns and 7,5cm armed halftracks. This army has glass cannon written all over it.

Your main problem will be mortar fire and tank support of infantry platoons. If you face enemy tanks you will be forced on the defensive, but can easily counterattack and set up your AT guns. However the real issues will be supporting enemy tanks in lists defending against you. I can see too many bad thing happening if you are facing an infantry list with two platoons of mobile tank support and you have to expose your halftracks to the light AT guns (and massed HMG's) the infantry have.

Here goes:

1. Swap panzerknacker on the Company HQ with panzerfausts from Platoon HQ, or just leave them off entirely.. You do not want to do close combat rushes with your company command stands, just dont. Panzerfausts give you a ranged AT option, frankly I would not pay for AT for the two command stands, though do take the Panzerscheck and give platoon commands panzerfaust. Platoon commands with 3,7cm gun upgrades make sense, especially as its free.

2. Get more infantry. I would take a third platoon of regular Panzergrenadiers with a pair of Opel Blitz to support them. Its cheap, adds more meat and you will not need all your infantry on the advance, a Panzergrenadier platoon can hold the line feeing up your two Gepanzerte platoons to go voran voran. Also it makes more sense for some of the panzergrendiers to not be given half tracks, as it better reflects the German equipment situation.

3. I like the heavy platoon and frankly think you should fill up up with both HMG sections if you can. Then gut it to provide assets for a Kampfgruppe. A Kampfgruppe with two squads (one per Gepanzerte platoon) and both Stummels attached is nasty.

4. Drop the cannon platoon, you have enough Stummels with the heavy platoon, don't overdo them, they are glass cannons.

5. Instead deploy a pair of Sd Kfz 251/16 Flamm, you can split them by adding one to the Kampfgruppe, these can multiply the effectiveness your limited numbers of infantry in assaults against infantry companies, and can waste bunkers.

6. PaK40's are nice, I notice they are not Gepanzerte though, that limits them to defensive use. I drop the section down to two guns.

7. Nicer through they are I would drop the heavy AT guns completely, if you need lots of anti tank firepower with this list i think you are in trouble, especially if you are still the attacker. Deploy some StuGs instead, StuG's are your best tank option for this list though a pair of Tigers cant hurt. Shermans dont need 8,8cm guns to take them on, if you are worried about Soviet heavies then you need Jagdpanthers.

8. Panzerspah are decent no recon scout units. Two patrols is about right.

9. I would drop the AA platoon, yes AA is useful but as all your Sd Kfz 251's have AA guns anyway you have a good deal of protection. If you must have AA take some Flak36 as multirole.

I'll add the following;

Like above, the Cannon units are a bit much and although you have your mobility and hitting power with them, especially against dug-in infantry, they can be pretty vulnerable. If you insist on running them, I'd use the two units in the Heavy Platoon and drop the rest for something else. You can Combat-Attach these units to your infantry platoons which is good support for them.

The mortars in the Heavy platoon can be your default smoke-launchers, and that's how I use mine and I use them well. To round-out the artillery, you'll have to choose a heavier artillery unit for pinning and digging-out units. Heavy Mortars can do this relatively cheaper than a full-fledged 10.5cm battery or heavier unit but it's points-dependent.

The PaK40's are fine as they are, even if they're not Gepanzerte; they're cheaper and be used in ambush roles easily and they're hard to spot in terrain. Keep them or add more if you can (weapons platoon option).

HMG's aren't needed as has already been explained by Likan; you have MG teams with Half-tracks which have quite the firepower on their own. Drop the HMG's to free-up points for your mobile-reserve heavy-hitters.

So, options to spend your points savings on;

StuG's or heavy artillery - you'll need some mobile AT with armor, so it's always good to have a platoon of these or Panzers of some sort. Heavy artillery is optional but recommended. As above, if you're going to keep it somewhat cost-efficient, the 120mm mortars are decent for this but you'll have to drop the Nebs. You could just scrap the Heavy platoon altogether and run 3 NW42 Armored Rocket Launchers (Maultiers) w/extra crew. They can smoke or pin when necessary. Then use the heavy mortars for the heavy lifting or something heavier.

The AA looks decent though.

There's nothing wrong with running a Pak-Front type of force, but just remember that you're the mobile force so you'll want everything to be able to keep-up with your advances when you become the attacker in certain missions. Just be prepared to move and be able to move 80% of your force to where it can do the most good for you.

I think I should explain the HMG's.

They are needed against infantry horde, they have impressive firepower, far in excess of that from the half tracks and are more easily concealable. I would deploy them forward and on the flank alongside an early assault, settling them to have ovewatch acrss the opponents half of the table laterally.

There they can sit and hamstring the opposing infantry (you just cant move into the fire of two HMG's. Thus the opponent will be quite unable to adjust to your advance. I think this is useful as Gepanzerte Panzergrenadiers is just about the smallest infantry based list you can get and you need to keep an infantry horde well pinned to deal with it.

However the point about their lack of utility against tank armies is well made and you can replace them with somethign else.

Been playing around with some more lists. I've found two that I'm feeling okay with from Grey Wolf and Atlantik Wall.

Atlantik Wall - GPzGren Company (Lehr)

HQ - 65

GPzGren Platoon - 3 Squads, SMG Cmd, 3.7cm HT - 290
GPzGren Platoon - 3 Squads, SMG Cmd, 3.7cm HT - 290
GPzGren Heavy Platoon - 2 8cm Mortars - 100

GPzGren Heavy Mortar Platoon - 4 Mortars, 3 Halftracks - 180

Panzer Platoon - 4 Panzer IV - 360
Puma Panzerspah Patrol - 4 Pumas - 200
Anti-Aircraft Platoon - 3 armoured 3.7cm - 165

Total: 1650



Grey Wolf - GPzGren Company

HQ - Panzerschreck - 125

GPzGren Platoon - 3 Squads, SMG CMD, 3.7 HT - 230
GPzGren Platoon - 3 Squads, SMG CMD, 3.7 HT - 230
GPzGren Heavy Platoon - 2 Mortars, 2 Cannons - 180

GPzGren Mortar Platoon - 4 Mortars - 175

Panzer Platoon - 4 StuG G - 380
Heavy Panzerspah Platoon - 4 8-rads - 160
Anti-Aircraft Gun Platoon - 3 Armoured 3.7cm - 165

Total: 1645


Thoughts on the two lists?

I prefer the second list, StuGs are the best 'budget' tanks you can get and Pumas may well be the worst 'recon' unit in the game for beginners. I'm not a fan of the 3.7cm Flakwagons I prefer the 2cm Flakwagons (of pretty much any flavour). of course if you already have the 3.7s then go with them.

The second list from Grey Wolf, definitely. It seems to have the right balance of everything.

The post above mine has me wanting to compare the 3.7cm Flak to the 2cm Flak...but I don't have my book with me and I can't remember their differences off the top of my head.

2cms have less range and firepower but are cheaper, quad 2cms also have less range and firepower but higher ROF.. Range isn't as critical as it used to be since all AA gets extra range when firing at aircraft.

All 2cm's are worse then 3.7s when fighting the Soviets because of the Flying Tank rule.

Quad 2cms are better when shooting at unprotected infantry or unarmored vehicles in the open due to having more shots.

The 3.7cm has a better range.

When you take into account points spent there's less than one percent difference in it (3.7s being slightly better vs Flying tank, 2cm Quads being better vs. standard aircraft). I find range is rarely a factor as you tent to take Flak to defend specific targets. 2cms are cheaper though so you have more points to spend on other things.