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Every year a me and some friends meet up to hold a 40k tournament. 3/5 of my opponents will be chaos. One guy is fielding Abaddon. His delivery method is unknown. There will no doubt be at least one fully upgraded flying demon, a mauler fiend, and two hell drakes. The rest of his list is a mystery. The other chaos guy will have Kharn, a bloodthirster and a lot of bezerkers in rhinos and a helldrake. Third guy is bringing thousand sons, which I have limited experience against. Then there's a dark angels player and vanilla marines. The marine player is using the chapter that gives them all scout. I have never played against Dark angels and he's keeping his list secret haha. He has 6000 points of models to choose from. All 3 chaos players will take defilers. For sure two of them. I don't know why but they love them. Oh yeah, deleting squads of wraith guard from 6 feet away might have something to do with it.

So, with that in mind, here are two lists that I am debating between. Help me decide.



Autarch 85 (banshee mask,fusion gun)
Spiritseer 70

Dire Avengers (5)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, holofields) 140

Dire Avengers (5)
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, holofields) 140

Wraithgaurd (5) D-scythes -210
Wave Serpent (scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, holofields) 140

Wind rider Jetbikes (3) 51

Wind rider Jetbikes (3) 51

Fire Dragons (5) 110

Harlequins (8) (kissesx8, shadowseer)


Falcon (scatter lasers,holofields) 130

War Walkers (3) (6x bright lance) 210

Crimson Hunter (exarch) 180

1847


I know many would advise against an autarch but here is why I want to use him. I'd like to try to keep the bike squads off but more importantly I want the harlequins he accompanies to strike first against high initiative enemies like big demons and Abbadon. The idea is that other parts of the army ground the big demon, or pop Abby's ride, then the dscythegaurd flame them and then the harlequins charge in and rend the remnants to death.


Here is the other list.

Farseer (MantleotLG,bike, spear, Spiritstone of A)(Warlord, full Telepathy)170
Warlock (bike, spear) 55

Dire avengers(5) -Wave Serpent (Scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, holo fields) 140
Dire avengers(5) -Wave Serpent (Scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, holo fields) 140
Dire avengers(5) -Wave Serpent (Scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, holo fields) 140
Dire avengers(5) -Wave Serpent (Scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, holo fields) 140
Windrider Jetbikes (3) 51
Windrider Jetbikes (6)(2 cannons) 132

Fire Dragons 5 (exarch, fast shot, fire pike) 145

Falcon (scatter lasers, holo fields) 130
War Walkers (6x bright lance) 210

Crimson Hunter (exarch)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Both lists are designed with this approach in mind. I park with the rear of my tanks close to the rear edge of my deployment zone and blast away at rhinos or other tempting targets. War walkers go after Abbadon's land raider, if applicable, or scout ahead in order to be in range of the defiler. The three chaos players will rush my deployment zone with their giant flying demons no doubt. Small dire avenger squads and the bikes are pretty good at forcing grounding checks. Then the rest of the army puts it down with shooting. Charge with harlequins if necessary. The falcon with dragons are on mauler fiend duty until its gone.

The telepathy seer will hopefully be able to cast puppet master on the defiler or hallucination on a flying demon. It will otherwise shriek things at midfield or chuck it's spear into rear armours.

2nd list would probably do better but the first list is more fun to play (i'm a big fan of harlequins owning 2 units of x10) but if its competitive then go second list, but drop the warlock and 3 bikes from the x6 unit and swap the Da into wraith guard.

Thanks for the reply. Taking out 3 bikes from the bigger squad as well as the cannons and the warlock saves me 126 points. 5 avengers are 65. Hmm.. If I take the holofields off the falcon that'd get me my 5 dscythegaurd. They wouldn't be troops though, which makes baby Jesus cry. Hmmmm... I am hesitant to significantly weaken one scoring unit and replace another one with an elite. But I always wanna take dscythegaurd in a serpent. They've been my MVPs many times. If I take the upgrades off the dragons in the second list that gets me 35 points. Just 35 more for a Spiritseer. Where though?? I don't want to sacrifice dakka from the serpents and since I will be firing the shields a lot I need the holo fields.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmmm....maybe the spirit stone of Anath'lan can come off the mantle seer. The thought of potentially casting invisibility, hallucination and puppet master in the same turn is enticing, but since the seer will be operating midfield he can get easily insta killed by a vector strike or baelflame which both ignore the mantle and the bikes 3+ armor. That'd be an easy warlord victory point for my opponents' the majority of which will be fielding at least one drake. I'm gonna want hat invulnerable save up. Even then, one failed 4+ invuln and he's gone. Damned helldrakes.

Well half true, bale flamer is strength 6 to your T4 (thankyou bikes) vector strikes will still make you sad.

Ooo actually not even half true. Str 7vector strike doesn't double a bike mounted eldar's toughness either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm...so take away 3 bikes, 2 cannons, a bikelock, the fire dragon upgrades, the spirit stone of A and maybe the upgrades from one serpent, though that vexes me, and I'd get my 5dscythegaurd with Spiritseer in a wave serpent. Does that seem stronger? The only thing I'd really miss wou
D be the seer's spirit stone and the shuriken cannon and holofields upgrade for one of the avenger serpents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm thinking instead of dropping one serpent and it's Avengers and replacing the other avengers with the scythe guard and Spiritseer. One less wave serpent but gain the scoring scythegaurd and don't have to sacrifice other upgrades.