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Termies are the better choice IMO.

Well, every heavy weapon that bounces off the Crusader is one less dead terminator!

I love the thing personally, but I also pack it full of assault termies. I also use it for fun, not necessarily for cost effectiveness.

Will the rest of your list be Deep Striking/Drop Podding? If so, your opponent will have a whole lot of guns with nothing but the Crusader to shoot at on the first turn or two.

In a pure DW list, I'd probably go with 2 Land Raiders or none at all.

 

EDIT: Hey wait! This is the wrong forum!!! Gadzooks! :S

Without question, more terminators.

Oops. Sorry about the wrong forum.

Its been so long since I have been active, I feel (and post obviously) like a newb again...

Posted" by="" blue="" loki="" on="" 04/06/2006="" 2:01="" pm="">

Well, every heavy weapon that bounces off the Crusader is one less dead terminator!

I love the thing personally, but I also pack it full of assault termies. I also use it for fun, not necessarily for cost effectiveness.

Will the rest of your list be Deep Striking/Drop Podding? If so, your opponent will have a whole lot of guns with nothing but the Crusader to shoot at on the first turn or two.

In a pure DW list, I'd probably go with 2 Land Raiders or none at all.

I am ashamed of the list really, as it is a very unoriginal use of assault cannons.

Most will be teleporting. I think the one or two squads designated as heavy will be deployed at the line for push back and teleport homers.

Here is the list though if it is needed for consideration:

2000 pts.

Codicer w/ FW
 fury of ancients, teleport homer

5 termie squads w/ 2 assault cannons as troops (teleporting)

1 termie squads w/ 2 assault cannons, telport homer and auspex

leaving me exactly 265 points left for either yet another termie squad or a crusader.

Terminators. Give your Librarian a command squad as he can't teleport without one.

Ezz

If you only have one vehicle, its going to collect every anti-tank weapon the enemy has... Using lots of assault cannons may make you feel dirty, but they're popular for a good reason.

Terminators are the way to go, IMHO. I haven't had enough experience with Crusaders to make a valid argument in their favor, but I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've decimated an enemy squadron on the verge of assaulting a weakened part in my line, or how they've somehow popped through the frontal armor of a Railhead after teleporting in.

I field a squad of 5 Terminators, usually with one Assault Cannon and one Cyclone, although I've discovered the Cyclone to be worse at destroying infantry/armor than the AC.

Someone check my math. It's late, and I'm very tired:
MEq v. MEq

AC: 4 shots @ 24" Ra. w/ str.6
4 shots => 72/27 (2.67) hits (consider that there is a 44.5% chance that a rending 6 will be rolled once any particular turn of shooting) => 60/27 (2.22) wounds (.37 wounds per turn will be caused by rending shots) => 20/27 (0.74) Meqs dead per round of shooting. Add another 0.12 to the "dead per round of shooting" number - that's how many will die of rending per turn. In other words, after firing 4 Assault Cannon shots, you have a 86% chance of killing one MEq that round.

Cyclone: 1 shot @ 48" Ra. w/ krak round
1 shot => 2/3 (0.67) hits => 5/6 (0.83) wounds =>5/9 (0.56) MEqs dead per round of shooting. The Krak missile is at a severe anti-infantry disadvantage, since it is only capable of creating a 55.6% probability of killing one MEq that round of shooting.

While this is just one example, it must also be considered that while the Cyclone has double the range of the Assault Cannon, it only is marginally better for taking out more heavily armored vehicles at range. Once that 24" mark is passed, the Assault Cannons get 4x as many shots, in tandem with the rest of the squad's storm bolters to create heavy-infantry Hell. Assault Cannons, when coupled with the tank-hunters doctrine under the Termie entry, allows them to threaten AV 12 and below in 16.7% increments per point decrease, while still maintaining their capability to glance AV 13 and 14. That in itself outstrips the Cyclone, because 8 shots times a 1 in 6 chance of glancing is much better than 2 shots times a 1 in 6 chance of glancing.
The choice is obvious. You can pay the same amount of points for a 33.3% chance of glancing AV 14, or for a 133.3% chance of glancing AV 14. Your call.
I know no one asked about the Cyclone, but I felt it necessary to justify the AC's usefulness as a primary (and as far as I'm concerned, _only_) weapon choice for any Terminator Squad.

CK

Agreed, Not only becuase of the math, but the synergy with the other 24" weapons in the squad. If a missile launcher is required, then it should be placed on a dread, which also happens to have an AC. More and more nowadays I am leaning to replacing the DCCW and HF with an ML. This is a shooty army after all, and it already has enough of a close combat element to it.

The reason I feel ashamed for fielding so many AC's is because they have grown a stigma as of late and people dont tend to realize that this is a deathwing list, so the odds are even more in their favor, generally.

"If you only have one vehicle, its going to collect every anti-tank weapon the enemy has... "
agree completely. 1 is just going to draw all the AT the other guy has, and die quickly, IMHO.

Remember, that almost anything that can reliably crack a Raider is a decent anti-Termi weapon too.  The one vehicle logic works great with IG, and is a strong argument with SM, but it breaks down with Necrons or Deathwing.  However, a Termi squad is much more durable than any tank.  I'd only take the Crusader if you really needed a mobile unit. 

If you were footslogging, and planning on a squad of 7 Assault Termies and a Chaplain, I'd say the crusader. Since you're mostly dropping, and going mostly AC oriented, get thyself more termies w/another homer and auspex, or a command squad for your Lib. Also consider upgrading him to an Epistolary, if only for the extra wound and the LD 10. Just about every time I've fielded a Codicier I ended up wishing he was an Epistolary for those two reasons--the extra 'spell' is just gravy.